Using RFID with ZigBee

Hi, combining Zigbee and RFID sound feasible. I believe the ref design software is done with an MSP430 so then you would need CC2430 (or CC2530) an MSP430 and TMS37157. If you are pushing cost and can port the software - then you can do it all in the CC2430 (or CC2530)

For more RFID info check out this:

http://focus.ti.com/docs/toolsw/folders/print/ez430-tms37157.html

I would suggest DASH7 over ZigBee.  It's the global standard for active RFID and used extensively by militaries around the world and increasingly, others. 10x the range of ZigBee, 10x the battery life, 10x better signal penetration through concrete walls, and 10% of the total cost of ownership.  Supports TI CC430 and uses OpenTag open source firmware.  For more info, visit http://ow.ly/JZqv    Happy New Year!

Hi engiNerd and Pat Burns,

Thanks for your replies!

DASH7 really looks a better one. I'll give it a try if possible.

Wish U A Happy New Year!!!

Hi Pat Burns,

Though I'm very much impressed by DASH7 I'm concerned about the protocol support for the TI CC430.

I downloaded the latest OpenTag project. It currently supports only the STM32F10x line. Support for MSp430F5 is in the roadmap I suppose. I also feel that using the current s/w support from the vendors it would take more time to build a DASH7 based Active RFID solution.

Please advice me on this.

Thanks and Best Regards,

Prakash

ZigBee is not good for RFID.  RFID applications and use-cases need wake-on-radio functionality, which is completely absent from ZigBee and 802.15.4.

OpenTag is new and in an evolving state of alphas and betas.  I'm working on the CC430 port now, and I expect to have something downloadable in a couple of weeks.  OpenTag is free and open source, so you can do whatever you need to the stack without paying anyone.  To play with the ZigBee stack, you need to pay the ZigBee Alliance.

The situation isn't perfect right now, since OT/DASH7 do not have tons of mature dev tools yet, but all good things take time.

Not sure what you mean by "...play with the ZigBee stack..."

I believe that you can evaluate, prototype, and completely develop a product without joining the ZigBee Alliance.

When you are ready to produce or release the product, you need to join the ZigBee Alliance, typically at the Adopter level.

One common frustration of developers I've encountered is that the ZigBee stack is presented as mostly a black box until you join the ZigBee Alliance and get access to source.  Maybe this is fine if all you care about is developing a product using a COTS ZigBee module, but if you want to inject some of your own mojo (such as wake-on radio features) it is not so easy.

Aside from this, there is no way to do ZigBee on the CC430 to begin with.  Maybe CC2430, but that is a very different product and mostly just a module itself -- it has quite limited MCU resources to do much beyond the ZigBee stack itself.

I can't speak for other ZigBee stack providers, but the Z-Stack offering from Texas Instruments is not tied to membership in the ZigBee Alliance.

Developers are encouraged to download the package(s) from the Web for evaluation (with or without relatively inexpensive development kits).

Although all source code is not provided in the Z-Stack packages, there is definitely much more than "a black box" only for "developing a product using a COTS ZigBee module".

You are correct, there is no way to implement ZigBee on the CC430, as ZigBee operates in the 2.4 GHz space. To use the CC430, other protocols need to be considered.

I guess I have an issue with the "until" part. You don't automatically get the source code to the Z-stack when you join the ZigBee alliance. Realistically, most developers won't ever need the source code ... their applications fit within the AP (Application Framework), they use the stack APIs and they're done. The problem comes when you're trying to make ZigBee into something that it's not. At that point it's best to consider other alternatives ... and there are many.

Take WOR (wake-on-radio) for instance.This is really wake-on-receive since the radio must be on in order to wake the CPU. The radio in RCV mode draws about 17mA, while an MSP430 draws uA while its polling the radio h/w at 32khz ... not much of an issue there.

Pretty much, either you need mesh networking or you need the marketing of the ZigBee branding to consider ZigBee. Otherwise, you should look elsewhere.

Hi JP Norair,

If an MSP430 port of OpenTag is only a couple of weeks from now I can wait for it.

Is an understanding of ISO/IEC 18000-7 standard required to use/modify  your OpenTag?

It certainly doesn't hurt, but it's not required.  I think there's a recent webinar posted on the dash7.org site, which I recommend you watch.  You can also email me directly.  

jpnorair __ indigresso.com

I think you can figure out what to put in the blank!

JP~

I just did a search on TI.com for DASH7 and this thread popped up.  I am curious as to what kinda of packet length Dash7 typically sees.  I have battery powered application and we are trying to keep Tx times down.  I would need to send about 20 bytes of data.  

Thanks!

Dave

Dave: the forum keeps eating my post.  Feel free to contact me directly, using the revised email above (the old one was defunct).

- DASH7 overhead will bring your 20 bytes up to 33 bytes or so, plus preamble and sync.

- If your 20 bytes contains file information, DASH7 has a file system, so you could leave out that data

- There are four data rates: 27.7k, 55.5k, 100k, 200k.  The low rates have a modulation type that provides high peak SNR in difficult environments, in other words, the low the rate, the longer the range.

- Based on CC430 startup time (about 0.5ms using "calibrate every 4th), at 27.7k your packet on time will be about 10 ms.  At 200k it will be less than 2 ms.

Zigbee using RFID

Is there anything out there that Zigbee with multi RFID antenna (say 10) can read ID only on standard RFID disks ? and pass to MS Excel(one of the current RFID tag frequencies)

Thanks

Charlie

hi charlie

you can use rfid reader interfaced to cc25xx through uart or usart and then pass the data to a pc.through uart again(or usb but u hav to write driver for that),....using vb.net( or c++.net) process the data and then send to ms excel sheet.

hope u get some idea from this

pruthvi srinivas