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TINA-TI: Tina-Ti updates does nothing for months!

Mai Mariarti
Prodigy 150 points
Part Number: TINA-TI

I downloaded and installed Tina-Ti some 6 months ago.
In this time, not even one update?
I get an update a week for my LTSpice installation!
Why is this?

  • 0
    Guru 48395 points

    Hello Mai, your despair might be misplaced - 

    What updates are you seeking? 

    1. LTSpice is an internal platform from LT (now ADI) so they have a corporate interest in updating it. 

    2. TINA is a 3rd party program TI leans on to support design ins. That company (DesignSoft) marches to the beat of a different drummer. 

    Normally, the main updates you are likely seeking are newer model files. Those appear on individual device product pages and can be usually imported easily to the core TINA platform as needed. 

    I went down this path some months back - asking designsoft if they had any updates (of new part models) for the V11 I had purchased - that version has an expansive model library -but not new parts. Not surprisingly, they do not update old version libraries - but they will sell me the latest version that might (or might not) have the newer parts - at the time I had asked if a specific new part model was included - no reply, suggesting likely not. 

    So, usually updates are for models, not simulator - in TINA, you have to do that yourself, whereas LTSpice might do that for you. Not particularly prohibitive and keep in mind LTSPice has a very restrictive model library for commercial reasons - the TINA V11 library I have is kind of amazing what you can find in it industrywide - <$300, well worth it in my opinion. 

  • 0 in reply to Michael Steffes
    Prodigy 150 points

    Thank you Michael.
    I love Ti but they goofed on this one.
    If I had the expertise, I am very sure LTSpice would kick all of these simulators out of the park.
    It is extremely fast, with the look and feel of windos 3.1 programs of the past.
    Yes, I think I'll have to mastering one, and that will not be Tina-Ti.
    Why Ti didn't invest to promote their parts like AD is doing, is beyond me.

    RIP Tina-Ti and get off my hard drive :)

  • 0 in reply to Mai Mariarti
    Guru 48395 points

    yes of course LTSpice is widely respected for its capabilities - you are of course locking yourself into only LT and ADI amplifier solutions at the hardware level - not a catastrophe of course, but you should recognize that choice. (incidentally, one layer down how good are the models? - my limited testing does not shower glory on the ADI models - the recent TI models are better in some important ways). Depending on what designs you are trying to do, that will lock you out of some pretty good newer TI solutions. In fact, a huge background discussion swirls around how to import TINA (and other) device models into LTSpice. 

    There are several efforts out there at a more supplier agnostic tool set. Multisim is another one. I am most familiar with TINA which has a great GUI for building circuits and a very expansive industrywide model set. I don't find it hard to import models to the platform - For those folks with both LTSPice and TINA experience, most prefer the TINA interface where LTSpice seems archaic in comparison - but, it is of course your choice. 

  • 0 in reply to Michael Steffes
    Prodigy 150 points

    I value your expertise in this matter. However, I plan to learn and master one program.
    GUI is important of course but more important is the speed at which the spice engine processes.
    I've heard that none are faster.
    I am planing on becoming a spice models expert by next year, when I can write my own using the datasheets and the spice language.
    Jack of all trades, master of none, doesn't work for me.
    Thanks again for your input.

  • 0 in reply to Mai Mariarti
    Guru 48395 points

    misleading results, delivered faster, only accelerate a spiral to despair - good luck, 

    I have scattered a few op amp and FDA model test techniques in this article series, If you are simulating op amps -

    Here is the start of phase margin - SSU #5, but I am working on #15 right now - settling time (now there is a pit of despair for sim efficacy) - if you click the little signal sped up blog, you will see them all. 

    https://www.planetanalog.com/stability-issues-for-high-speed-amplifiers-introductory-background-and-improved-analysis-insight-5/

    If op amps are your interest, I would suggest you validate - 

    1. Open loop gain and phase

    2. input impedances (capacitance mainly)

    3. open loop output impedance

    Eventually, most design validations in sim are trying to verify phase margin at minimum - surprisingly random accuracy in the vast expanse of extant models. 

  • 0 in reply to Mai Mariarti
    Guru 140200 points

    Hi Mai,

    I work intensively with both, TINA-TI and LTSpice. In my view LTSpice is not faster than TINA-TI. I had some transient analysis with the LT1766 in LTSpice which consumed lots of power and a huge amount of time. I had to wait up to a quarter of an hour for the result. And I run an 8-core processor (i7-4790K) at 4GHz with 16GB RAM! Neither program is better than the other, they are simply different. Sometimes I prefer TINA-TI, sometimes LTSpice...

    Kai

  • 0 in reply to Michael Steffes
    Genius 3945 points

    "you are of course locking yourself into only LT and ADI amplifier solutions at the hardware level"

    This is not true. I've been using LTSpice for ... well, let's just say it's been a long time ... and it has always supported allowing the user to add models to the library. Yeah, the method for doing that is kinda bonkers and the program enforces a library structure, but once you figure it out, it's easy. My LTSpice library includes many TI parts.

    As for user interfaces: the LTSpice interface is archaic and daft. The TINA interface is also daft. There are actual user interface standards that the authors of both simulators have chosen to completely ignore.

  • 0 in reply to Andy Peters
    Guru 48395 points

    Very good point Andy, 

    Any of these tools will allow you, with effort, to import industry models. There is an ongoing discussion here of overcoming problems in doing that into LTSpice, so not always that easy - but sometimes I am sure it is. 

    The original post kind of implied a desire to have automatic updates without the bother of importing new model devices - or whatever, it was never divulged updates desired - but normally that is models only. So if you are only interested in LTSpice autoupdates, then you are probably tied into that product set - which, again, is not the end of the world. 

  • 0 in reply to Andy Peters
    Prodigy 150 points

    I too have added many parts downloaded from the old yahoo group.
    I just got LTSpice to work in Linux Mint using Wine. It works beautifully.
    I moved to Linux Mint from WindBlows 7 on new year's day.
    If you ever want to exchange libraries, email me at "maimariati" at gmail.
    Cheers.

  • 0 in reply to Michael Steffes
    Prodigy 150 points

    Hi Michael,
    I am sorry for the confusion. I was asking mostly for how a program of this complexity, has never updated the code!?

  • 0 in reply to Mai Mariarti
    Guru 48395 points

    Morning Mai, 

    Oh I see, Well TINA is a program maintained by DesignSoft in Budapest - if you check their web site, they have branched out into quite a few other areas where their updates are in versions to TINA. I purchased V11 two years back, they are now selling V12 which might have platform updates, but not sure. TI partners with them to provide a free version on their website (V9). I don't believe TI is set up necessarily to push updated versions out as they allow you to download that free version but don't track for updating. 

    Yes, this is a gap vs LTSPice - but I don;t find it limiting having spent a very modest amount for V11 and have had generally (but not universally) good luck importing models to TINA that are not in that V11 library. I will say with all the model updates that have been going on, it has become necessary to check those library models against the web folder ones to make sure I have the latest. Not even sure if the TI free download has the latest models - that might be a good question - tough one as that is an ongoing effort along with the new product models that come along randomly as well.  

  • 0 in reply to Mai Mariarti
    TI__Guru 71526 points

    Hello Mai,

    I appreciate your inquiry and concern about TINA updates.  Please recognize that TINA is a DesignSoft/TINA program, and any questions/concerns are best handled by using the DesignSoft support page:: http://www.tina.com/technical-support/  .
    The DesignSoft/TINA team is very helpful and this is the most direct way to get TINA support.

    Regards,

    ~Leonard

  • 0 in reply to Michael Steffes
    Prodigy 150 points

    Hi Michael,
    Thanks for another eye opening reply.
    I think I'll stick to what I know for now. I do understand what Ti did in order to promote their own parts as others like ADI do.
    However, I feel Ti didn't commit enough. One thing good about LTSpice, is ADI keeps pushing new parts into their library, but they also fell short, by not marking what part are new additions.
    I am also surprised that Ti, with so much in-house expertise, didn't develop it themselves and have full control over it! 
    But I digress.
    Have a wonderful and prosperous new year.

  • 0 in reply to LeonardEllis
    Prodigy 150 points

    Hi Leo,
    Understood. Thank you.

  • 0 in reply to Mai Mariarti
    Genius 3945 points

    "I am sorry for the confusion. I was asking mostly for how a program of this complexity, has never updated the code‽"

    Looking at the TI TINA download page, I see that it's on v9.3, last updated Oct 2018. So that's over a year ago.

    Now this is the free version TI offers its customers. If you look further on the DesignSoft TINA website, you'll see that they're up to Version 12, which has a lot of features not included in the free TI version. In addition to SPICE modeling, it has IBIS simulations (which you need for high-speed PCB design/analysis), VHDL and Verilog simulation, PCB design and more.

    Which leads me to my point. The version TI offers is fully functional and works well. If you want the newest versions with the newest features, you can buy it from DesignSoft directly. Pick the features/level you want and give them your credit card and there you go.

  • 0 in reply to Andy Peters
    Guru 48395 points

    Morning Andy, 

    I have a slide deck on importing to LTSpice procedures I am reviewing. Not sure that what I am seeing it as direct as it might be, can I ask you to take a look at it and comment? Please contact, 

    msteffes1@comcast.net 

    Thanks,