This thread has been locked.

If you have a related question, please click the "Ask a related question" button in the top right corner. The newly created question will be automatically linked to this question.

TMUXHS4212: TMUXHS4212 CASCADED S PARAMETER SIMULATION

Part Number: TMUXHS4212
Other Parts Discussed in Thread: HD3SS3212

Hi,

We are planning to use 3 TMUXHS4212 mux in cascaded configuration for 5Gbps differential high speed signals.

I came across the test report about cascade analog mux here. 

https://www.ti.com/lit/wp/slaa991/slaa991.pdf?ts=1716378024253&ref_url=https%253A%252F%252Fwww.ti.com%252Fproduct%252FTMUXHS4212

If you look at the Fig 3.2 at the first page, the insertion loss is shown as -1dB at 5GHz.

First of all, this contradicts with the value given by datasheet of TMUXHS4212.

I do not think that we can achieve better insertion loss by cascading it. 

Here you can see the insertion loss and return loss values given by the datasheet.

Then, I downloaded s parameter model provided by TI and simulated in Ansys/Electronic Desktop.

As shown in the picture below, it demonstrates insertion and return loss for single, 2 cascaded and 3 cascaded TMUXHS4212 muxes from top to bottom respectively.

As you can see, the values for insertion loss and return loss for single mux are close to the values given by datasheet.

However, 2 cascaded version does not match with the results in the TI test report at all.

As a note, I did not include any transmission line, via or etc.

 

Could you please explain me that why cascaded version in test report  has better high frequency characteristics than the single version high frequency characteristics given in the datasheet?

If test report is correct, why my simulation output matches with datasheet but not with the test report?

Thank you.

Kind regards,

Derun

  • Hi Derun:

       I also trust the S4P model from Ti.com and datasheet  Figure 3.2 seems just the output with 1 mux..

    regards

    brian

        

  • Hi Brian,

    Thanks for the answer.

    Today, I tried to run an eye diagram simulation but it gives such warnings about s parameter files.


    [warning] models:s_element(warning): s65 - S-parameter data in file: slam350\s4p_cdat_1\a0b0_dbd.s4p is not passive. Worst violation of 2.15386 at 1.96127e+10 (Hz). Suspect active device. (10:04:02 AM May 23, 2024)
    [warning] models:s_element(warning): s65 - Data file: \slam350\s4p_cdat_1\a0b0_dbd.s4p: No DC frequency is available, so transient result may be inaccurate. (10:04:02 AM May 23, 2024)

    Then it terminates the simulation because of not be able to achieve acceptable error.

    Since it says s parameter file is not passive and no DC frequency is available, is it an indication that s parameter file is non-causal?

    Thanks.

    Regards,

    Derun

  • Hi Derun:

        Did you see this message with other S4P file before when running eye diagram?

    Regards

    brian

  • Hi Brian,

    I just checked and I apparently missed in the first simulation that it also gives warnings about the passivity of the s parameter file.

    I changed the frequency range to not include 19.6GHz since it has the worst violation but did not solve the problem.

    Regards,

    Derun

  • Hi Derun:

       Let me check with our validation engineer who took this S4P data , but he will be back next Wed due to US holiday.

    Regards

    Brian

  • Hi Derun::

        From our validation engineer:

    "this could be due to a measurement or setup issue. If the de-embedding of the test fixture is NOT right or only valid for a given frequency range but the measurement goes beyond that frequency, the data could be interpreted as NONE-PASSIVE"

      So we may need to retake the S4P data to compare.

    Regards

    brian

  • Hi Brian,

    Thank you for the response.

    I guess, the new measurement will take some time to create new s4p data.

    In this case, I am assuming that my simulation output in the first message is not correct too because of the s4p file.

    However, we need to move forward to our project since the time is critical for us.

    As I said, we have 3 cascaded mux where input data rate is 5Gbps.

    Do you know any alternative part?

    Or can you tell me when we can get the new S4P data approximately?

    Regards,

    Derun

  • Hi Derun::

        You can try HD3SS3212 S4P  model for  5Gbps mux.

        It may take two weeks to retake S4P for TMUXHS4212.

    Regards

    Brian