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TPD4E02B04: Communication error at 6kV

Yoshikazu Kawasaki
Intellectual 881 points
Part Number: TPD4E02B04
Other Parts Discussed in Thread: ESD401, ESDS314, ESDS304, ESDS452, ESD204

Tool/software:

Hello,

My customer has communication error issue at 6kV with TPD4E02B04 even though the datasheet says +/-12kV.  Their previous board didn't have communication issue on gigabit ethernet even at 6kV and had the issue without ESD protection devices on their new board, so they thought ESD protection device would be required and put TPD4E02B04.  The performance has improved a little, but they still had communication issue.  Would you please tell me what they would need to do to work on gigabit ethernet?  Do they need to use another protection device other than TPD4E02B04 like ESD401 since the datasheet on top page of TPD4E02B04 doesn't say ethernet for interfaces?

Note that they asked module to an external company, so they don't know which ESD protection device is used.  The label on the device says "1436H", but it didn't hit as ESD protection device from the internet search.  Note also that they need 4-ch.

Best Regards,

Yoshikazu Kawasaki

  • 0
    TI__Expert 8600 points

    Hi Yoshikazu, 

    Did the previous board have ESD protection? Also, if you can provide a schematic and/or the Ethernet device number that is needing protection, that would be helpful in understanding the issue and providing a solution. 

    In the meantime, the device we typically recommend for Ethernet protection that is 4-channels is ESDS304 or ESDS314. 

    Best,

    McKenzie

  • 0 in reply to McKenzie Eaker
    Intellectual 881 points

    Hello McKenzie-san,

    Thank you very much for your quick reply.

    Yes, their previous board had ESD protection device and the new one didn't.  They tested the new board, but it didn't work, so they thought the ESD protection device would be required to pass the tests and found TPD4E02B04 which is the closest one to their requirements, bi-direction, Vrwm≧5V and Vclamp≦10V.  It means your suggested devices don't meet their requirements because those are uni-directional ones.

    I'll ask them to provide the information you asked and send you if I get them.

    Best Regards,

    Yoshikazu Kawasaki

  • 0 in reply to Yoshikazu Kawasaki
    TI__Expert 8600 points

    Hi Kawasaki-san, 

    Please let me know once you receive information from the customer. 

    I did notice that TPD4E02B04 has a Vrwm of 3.6V which might not meet their requirements. Another device that could be an option is ESDS452 (link). It is 2-channel so two devices would be required to protect 4-channels. 

    Best,

    McKenzie

  • 0 in reply to McKenzie Eaker
    Intellectual 881 points

    Hello McKenzie-san,

    Thank you very much for your quick reply again.  We asked them to send the schematic and the part name of the ethernet IC, but there is no information we've received so far.

    > TPD4E02B04 has a Vrwm of 3.6V

    Yes, they're aware of this.  Actually there is no device meeting all the requirements shown below, so they have to sacrifice something and Vrwm is the one they did.

    - for gigabit ethernet

    - bi-directional

    - Vrwm≧5V

    - Vclamp≦10V

    > Another device that could be an option is ESDS452

    Will it work for gigabit ethernet even though it has 3pF(typ) I/O capacitance?

    Best Regards,

    Yoshikazu Kawasaki

  • 0 in reply to Yoshikazu Kawasaki
    TI__Expert 8600 points

    Hi Kawasaki-san, 

    I believe ESDS452 will work for gigabit-ethernet but would require testing. I do have another device option if the customer is willing to sacrifice on Vrwm. It is ESD204 (link). It is a 4-channel device in the same package as TPD4E02B04 but has a higher ESD rating. It will also be able to protect up to 10Gbps. 

    Let me know once you receive information from the customer, because it could just be an issue unrelated to the ESD device specs. 

    Best,

    McKenzie

  • 0 in reply to McKenzie Eaker
    Intellectual 881 points

    Hello McKenzie-san,

    Thank you very much for your quick reply again.

    We haven't received any replies from out customer yet, but please let me confirm 2 things.

    1. Does ESD204 really support up to 10Gbps?  The datasheet says "Ethernet 10/100/1000 Mbps", so it supports only up to 1Gbps.

    2. Can I expect higher noise immunity on ESD204 since it has higher ESD ratings than TPD4E02B04?  I expect their system can communicate up to even 12kV on ESD204 which fails at 6kV on TPD4E02B04.

    Best Regards,

    Yoshikazu Kawasaki

  • +1 in reply to Yoshikazu Kawasaki
    TI__Expert 8600 points

    Hi Kawasaki-san, 

    1. Yes, it can support up to 10Gbps. This is an older device, so the interfaces listed may not be fully up to date. In regards to understanding the data rate, we look at the insertion loss graph in the Typical Characteristics section. When looking at the graph, find the frequency at 3dB (~50% power point) then use the equation, data rate = 2*frequency. For ESD204, this will be ~10Gbps.

    2. We don't check noise performance for our devices, but both TPD4E02B04 and ESD204 will have similar leakage currents (<10nA). 

    Best,

    McKenzie

  • 0 in reply to McKenzie Eaker
    Intellectual 881 points

    Hello McKenzie-san,

    Thank you very much for your quick reply again.

    I understand the datasheet will show supporting 10Gbps at the next update.

    We haven't received any replies from our customer yet.  I'll tell you once I get information from them anyway.

    Best Regards,

    Yoshikazu Kawasaki

  • 0 in reply to Yoshikazu Kawasaki
    TI__Expert 8600 points

    Hi Kawasaki-san, 

    Feel free to reach out through this thread once you hear back. 

    Best,

    McKenzie

  • 0 in reply to McKenzie Eaker
    Intellectual 881 points

    Hello McKenzie-san,

    Thank you very much for your support.

    It seems the communication error didn't happen after implementing the board with TPD4E02B04 on one of their products.  The error happened on their board alone.  They still need to check on the other products, so they can't say TPD4E02B04 works on all their products yet, but please let me close this thread once and let me open another one if we get other issues.

    Best Regards,

    Yoshikazu Kawasaki