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I don't have a part number

Shmuel Davis
Expert 2930 points

Other Parts Discussed in Thread: TPS65982, BQ25703A, TUSB320, HD3SS460, HD3SS3212, TUSB1310A, HD3SS3220, TPD6S300, TPD8S300

I am starting to look into USB 3.0 PD - I don't necessarily need communication as I am looking to power a portable device. I need the option for the PC to provide me with upto 3A ! It would also be good if this IC had battery charging functionality 

Does anyone one have any suggestions 

  • 0
    TI__Expert 7395 points
    Hello Shmuel,

    We are assigning your question to a support engineer you will get a response soon.

    Regards,
    Jorge
  • 0 in reply to Jorge Llamas (SWAT)
    TI__Genius 10370 points

    Hi Shmuel,

    Welcome to E2E! Currently, we do not have a mass market USB PD 3.0 device. For an application that involves sourcing/sinking 3A of current, a USB PD 2.0 device will do the trick as well. In this case, I would recommend the TPS65982. If your project can wait until March/April of 2018, I believe we'll be releasing a PD 3.0 device for mass market.

    Also, what specs does your application need from PD 3.0 that PD 2.0 do not have? 

    On another note, our PD controllers do not have battery charging functionality, but they work nicely with the BQ25703A device (battery charging IC). I hope this helps :-)

  • 0 in reply to Aramis P. Alvarez
    Expert 2930 points

    Dear Aramis,

    Thanks for reply. 

    At the moment we are looking more into USB Type-C with its 3A@+5V supply but the higher power available from the USB PD might be needed. We are currently putting the battery implementation aside. I started to look at the TPS65982 - what is the main difference between this and lets say the TI TUSB320 ? 

    I assume that the UBS PD 2.0 is what si providing me with the 3A @20 V right ? Do you know or have any documentation on how many Host computers can actually provide this ?

    I would probably not need more than 4A@5V how could I implement this with the TPS65982  ?

    Also I am looking into the FTDI FT601 \ FT602 chips for USB 3.1 communication - could this be connected correctly with the TPS65982 ? Do you have any other chips that you might recommend for the communication side of things - we are using an Altera Cyclone V with NIOS processor for interfacing with Qsys ! 

    Thank you in advanced for all your help ! 

    Best regards

    Shmuel 

  • 0 in reply to Shmuel Davis
    TI__Intellectual 1990 points
    TUSB320 is TYpe-C only DRP controller. It does not support USB PD protocol.
    For VBUS power beyond 5V @3A, a PD capable controller is needed, such as TPS65982.
    4A can be supported using an external power FET with TPS65982.
    USB3 data lines need to be multiplexed with an external High speed mux such as HD3SS3212 or HD3SS460. The high speed mux needs to be controlled via the TPS65982 based upon the Type-C orientation(as it's flip-pable) and/or mode of operation. Please refer to the reference dsns/tool pages of TPS65982/HD3SS3212/HD3SS460 for example implementations.
  • 0 in reply to Yu-Ning Lee
    Expert 2930 points

    Dear Yoon Lee,

    Thanks for the quick response.

    I read over the TI A primer on USB Type-C and Power Delivery applications and requirements and I have a couple of questions :-

    1. Firstly it appears that adding USB PD is going to complicate the design more. Do you have any info on how many PCs and laptops actually provide the 5A@20V ? 

    2. Can I assume that the 3A@+5V is pretty standard to all\most PCs & Laptops (I know that Type C is becoming more and more popular but if there is only a Type A connector we can always use an adapter !?)

    3. We would highly prefer a single chip solution(or as compact as possible) for the control of the USB Type-C power and MUX(which sounds like I need for USB 3.1 G1 & G2 RIGHT  ????). Also we would like \ prefer that it have CC control and as well as be a DRP. Do you have any chips \ solutions with these requirements as well as Two-Channel Differential 2:1/1:2 USB3.1 Mux/Demux or is that asking for too much ?

    4. I am considering dropping the USB PD idea and using 2 USB Type C connectors with a Two-Channel Differential 2:1/1:2 USB3.1 Mux/Demux - is each port going to need its own power \ DRP controller or is there a single chip solution ? 

    5. For the USB 3.1 G1 & G2 PHY Transceiver do you have any chips \ solutions that have a different interface to the micro controller than the TUSB1310A which has a PIPE interface ? What other options are available ? 

    Thanks for all your help

    Shmuel 

  • 0 in reply to Shmuel Davis
    TI__Intellectual 1990 points

    1. Most laptops provide 5V upto 3A while it can be charged upto 20V@5A(mostly 3A and under).

    2. 5V@3A is the max supported if the port supports Type-C only(no USB PD support).  Legacy USB connection such as to a Type-A is supported via adapters. 

    3. If Type-C only you can consider HD3SS3220 for integrated mux + Type-C controller

    4.  Each port would require a Type-C controller

    5. Not that I am aware.  I will forward the inquiry to someone who may be able to assist. 

  • 0 in reply to Yu-Ning Lee
    Expert 2930 points

    1. Do you have any info on how many PCs and laptops actually PROVIDE the 5A@20V supply for our peripheral device ?

    2. Do you have any info on how standardized the Type-C(no USB PD support) and thus +3A@5V is \ will be in Desk Top PCs and Laptops ? 

    3. From the primer it stated "Unlike USB 2.0 data, the mux/demux is not optional and is required for all applications, except USB Type-C plugs that are connected directly to a host (versus a female receptacle)." Is it correct that the Type-C plug is found on the USB Type-C cable only and on our peripheral device we will have a Type-c female receptacle and thus we have no choice but have to have a mux/demux in our design ? 

    4. If I used HD3SS3220 and I have 2 USB Type-C connectors on my peripheral device, I assume that I would connect the Tx\Rx to my Peripheral device's USB Transceiver\PHY\Controller and the TX1\RX1 to the 1st TYPE-C Connector and the TX2\RX2 to the 2nd TYPE-C Connector ? The HD3SS3220 seems that it will control the power \ DRP of 1st TYPE-C Connector but how do I then control the power  \ DPR of the 2nd TYPE-C Connector ? 

  • 0 in reply to Shmuel Davis
    Expert 2930 points
    Please ignore my Qu.4. I just saw in the data sheet that for each connector I will need a separate HD3SS3220 with its own power / DPR control.
  • 0 in reply to Shmuel Davis
    TI__Intellectual 1990 points
    1. I don't have info on PCs that can provide 20V. Most Type-C ports in the laptops are mostly consumers at high voltage(above 5V) while only provides 5V
    2. Please check usb.org. USB Type-C and PD specs are open standards.
    www.usb.org/.../

    3. For TYpe-C receptacle based applications, SS TX/RX muxing is necessary to support both orientations. Muxsing can be accomplished via digital or a discrete high speed mux component. For applications with host/hub controllers, two of the downstream ports can be assigned for one TYpe-C port, such that one downstream port can be used for one type-C connection orientation, the other for the other connection orientation.
    A direct connect(cradle type docking) or a dongle type applications with a captive cable with a Type-C plug won't need an additional SSTX/RX muxing. Please refer to Type-C and PD specifications for details.
    www.usb.org/.../
  • 0 in reply to Yu-Ning Lee
    TI__Intellectual 1990 points
    please also note that many of the Type-C laptops ship with Type-C power adapters that provide 20V.
  • 0 in reply to Yu-Ning Lee
    Expert 2930 points

    Thanks for the info on the MUX - but what about a MUX on the USB 2.0 signals :- 

    Within the TI A primer on USB Type-C and Power Delivery applications and requirements they state as follows :-

    "The USB Type-C specification states that shorting the pairs together, D+ to D+ and D– to D–, and creating a stub is allowed. However, even though not required, some designers elect to include a USB 2.0 MUX in their system to improve
    signal integrity "

    What should we do - we would obviously prefer not to have to add another chip ! 

  • 0 in reply to Shmuel Davis
    TI__Intellectual 1990 points

    Dp1 and Dp2, Dn1 and Dn2 may be shorted but with min stub.  

    Please refer to the notes under Table 3-5 in the Type-C Specification Release 1.3.   The spec recommend stub not to exceed 3.5mm.

  • 0 in reply to Yu-Ning Lee
    Expert 2930 points

    Thank you fro those replies !

    1. For the TUSB320 and HD3SS3220 chips configured as UFP's,  when they are connected to a USB port what is the initial minimum power will be provided and supplied by the DFP's they are connected to ?

    2. If these chips\ports are connected to a USB 2.0 then who does the enumeration ?

    3. If these chips are configured as UFP's isn't there going to be an issue if USB Type-C charger 5A@+20V is connected to our device instead of a USB Type-C charger 3A@+5V charger ? Is there some sort of additional protection required ? Is there any documentation on this ?

  • 0 in reply to Shmuel Davis
    TI__Intellectual 1990 points

    1. It depends on the Current advertisement of the Source port the Sink(you refer it as UFP) is connected to.  A Type-C only source port can advertise: 5V@3A, 1.5A or default(900 or 500mA) per Type-C spec definition.  Pleases refer to the Type-C specification for details.  Section 4.11.1 in Type-C spec entails the Source CC Termination parameters.

    2. The USB2.0 enumeration should work as specified in the USB spec after CC detection.  The Type-C/PD controllers do not participate in the USB enumeration process.  They are only for TYpe-C specific CC protocol handshake.

    3. Unless both sides agree upon the connected voltage/current, the voltage would remain @ Type-C connected voltage and current.  Upon initial connection, Type-C only voltage and current would be enabled.  If both ends are USB PD capable then the explicit contract can be established.  The connection process and protocol are defined and documented in the USB Type-C and USB PD specification which can be obtained from usb.org.

  • 0 in reply to Yu-Ning Lee
    Expert 2930 points

    At this stage of the design we have decided to go with the regular TYPE-C 3A@+5V and NOT implement\use USB PD. Do you think we will need any type of protection circuitry for this type of design ? 

  • 0 in reply to Shmuel Davis
    TI__Intellectual 1990 points

    You can consider: 

  • 0 in reply to Yu-Ning Lee
    Expert 2930 points

    1. Why should I be using the TPD6S300 and not the TPD8S300 like suggested in the TI Circuit Protection for USB Type-C ? 

    2. Can the VDD power supply of the TUSB320 be supplied from the VBUS of the Type-C connected like it (VDD5) can be in the  HD3SS3220 ? For both chips can the VBUS be connected directly to their VDD and VDD5 pins ?

  • 0 in reply to Shmuel Davis
    TI__Genius 10370 points
    Hi Shmuel,

    The biggest difference between the two is that the TPD8s300 has all four D+/D- pins for protection, whereas the TPD6s300 has two pins for D+/D-. If you're going to short the Dp1/Dp2 and Dn1/Dn2 pins together, then the TPD6s300 would be recommended. If you're NOT shorting those pins together, then the TPD8s300 is the recommended choice. I hope this helps :-)
  • 0 in reply to Aramis P. Alvarez
    Expert 2930 points
    Thank you so much

    Can the VDD power supply of the TUSB320 be supplied from the VBUS of the Type-C connected like it (VDD5) can be in the HD3SS3220 ? For both chips can the VBUS be connected directly to their VDD and VDD5 pins ?
  • 0 in reply to Shmuel Davis
    Expert 2930 points
    I just found this in the data sheets "If VBUS is guaranteed to be less than 5.5 V, powering the TUSB320 device
    through a diode can be implemented" - my device is to be a UFP so the VBUS will be dependant on the PC \ Laptop USB port that I am connecting to - thus how can I guarantee that the VBUS will be less than 5.5V ?
  • 0 in reply to Shmuel Davis
    Expert 2930 points

    Another question : When I am using your ICs set to UFP so I am planning to use the LTC4415 Dual 4A Ideal Diodes with adjustable Current Limit to combine the power from my 2 ports to provide the total power to my system. However If I wish to use your ICs ALSO as either a DFP or DRP what type of (additional) ICs \ circuitry will I need enable to provide power to the peripheral that is connected to my device ? I am assuming that I will connect a wall socket into my USB320 PWR port (acting as a DFP) to provide my device with power and then direct that power to my first communicating port connected to the HD3SS3220 (acting as a UFP)?! 

  • 0 in reply to Shmuel Davis
    Expert 2930 points
    Sorry I got the last sentence mixed up

    I am assuming that I will connect a wall socket into my USB320 PWR port (acting as a UFP-SINK) to provide my device with power and then direct that power to my first communicating port connected to the HD3SS3220 (acting as a DFP-SOURCE)?!