This thread has been locked.

If you have a related question, please click the "Ask a related question" button in the top right corner. The newly created question will be automatically linked to this question.

DS32ELX0124: Limitation in the number of daisy chained devices ?

Part Number: DS32ELX0124
Other Parts Discussed in Thread: DS32ELX0421

We have selected DS32ELX0124 for use in a large signage project, where we will daisy chaining multiple led panels with this ic (with CAT6 cable in between). Then I recently read in some threads here at the TI forum about a limit of how many devices that could be in series.

An example https://e2e.ti.com/support/interface/industrial_interface/f/142/t/638090
"There is ultimately going to be a limit the maximum number of deserializers, because there will be jitter peaking from the PLL of each CDR circuit, which will then accumulate in each redundant signal as it passes through more and more DS32ELX0124 deserializers."

This must be wrong? The whole idea with this chip is that it retimed signal is (almost) always in better quality than the incoming, with the (only) penalty of a delay. 
The datasheet tells that the input has a 0.5 UI Minimum Input Jitter Tolerance, then the reclocked output must be WAY better and cleaned up than this, right ?

In the document http://www.ti.com/lit/ug/snla200/snla200.pdf , page 17 in bottom: "If achieving multiple daisy chain hops is a critical part of a given system, the DS32ELX0421/DS32ELX0124 FPGA-Link Ser/Des should be considered. The DS32ELX0124 FPGA-Link deserializer has an integrated re-timed loop-through driver with input equalization and output de-emphasis. The re-timer in the loopthrough cable driver circuit mitigates the jitter between each daisy chain hop, allowing for large numbers of daisy chain hops".
It contradicts the TI forum answer.

A "large numbers" indicates a lot more than only 16 devices, right?
What type of jitter is accumulating in each hop if the CDR in each hop already can recover a jitter of up to 0.5 UI?

So far we have not tested more than a few 4 hops, but with the above background I think we should soon perform a test of  >25 hops and study the behaviour.

It would be very helpful to get a clarification of this issue, since our design depends on a "large numbers of devices daisy chain hops.

Thanks in advance.
/T

  • Hello Tobias,

    We look into this and get back to you.

    Regards,
    Yaser
  • Hello,
    The statement made in the other E2E post is valid. The CDR circuit only has limited ability to track incoming jitter and recover the clock/data.
    There're jitters that the CDR cannot track due to circuit implementation. This part of the jitter will get carried and passed to each downstream hops.
    Each re-timed loop also has an additive jitter of Max 35ps, which will hurt the overall budget.

    We do not have any data for implementation beyond the 16 hops mentioned in the other post.



    Best Regards,
    Charley Cai
  • Thansk for your answer.

    I get a bit confused now. In your document "Channel Link II Design Guide" (the pdf I am refering to in my first post)
    it explicitly says that DS32ELX0124 is the solution "allowing for large numbers of daisy chain hops";
    1. My humble interpretation of the definition of "large numbers"; I expected it to be more than 16 hops...
    Is this limit something that was first discovered in practical tests and maybe not forseen during the chip design ?
    I am just trying to understand the discrepancy between the Design Guide statement and possible practical limit.

    2. Ok. In my case, the link length between each ELX0124 is very short, aprox 30cm to 50cm max (CAT6 TP-cable).
    I suppose under those circumstances I will have more budget, allowing for higher number of hops?
    I asume lower datarate would also improve the budget = more hops, correct ?

    3. Trying to find remedy. Would the best solution be to insert a repeater at each 16:th hop ?
    Deserializer + fpga + Serializer. FPGA runs on crystal oscillator and implements a small fifo between
    RX and TX. This solution could be viable and whould then enable "unlimited" hops.

    The project size is 10K+ units/year so I really need to find an cost effective solution.
    I would be happy to be contacted by one of your FAE:s to discuss project details.

    Best regards
    Tobias P
  • Hi Tobias,

    1. I am sorry that I cannot comment on the interpretation of "large number" as I currently do not have data to show what this number is. I will try to dig a little more and give you an update if I find any.

    2. Yes, both short cable, and lower data rate will help.

    3. This would be one option to get "unlimited" hops. Please contact local TI sales office in your region, they would be able to help finding the best solution.


    Best Regards,
    Charley Cai
  • Ok. Thanks.
    We will do jitter measurements through a number of hops and from that we would be able to estimate
    where the limit is for a specific speed and cable length.