Other Parts Discussed in Thread: AM263P4, LP-AM263P
Tool/software:
The PROC159E2 EVM PCB Stack-up is designed with 10 Layers but we want to reduce it to 8L for our project. Do you have any constraints or guidelines to confirm this?
Amit Teke
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Tool/software:
Hi Amit,
Have you reviewed our HW design guideline document before? This is the best resource we have: https://www.ti.com/lit/pdf/sprabj8
Any constraints would be highlighted in it.
If you have specific questions, I can have one of our HW experts provide some comments.
Best Regards,
Ralph Jacobi
Hi Amit,
Adding on to what Ralph said above, please do review the Hardware Design guideline what Ralph pointed out above.
Most of our EVMs(like PROC159E2) are designed to demonstrate multiple peripherals on the same board for easier evaluation. For this a lot of on-board Mux and De-Mux are used. One starting point would be to start planning with which peripherals to use using Sysconfig and then remove these un-used Muxed peripherals based on your use case. This would greatly reduce the complexity of the board and especially the fanout. Few quick things with respect to PROC159E2 I can think of are below
Few or all of the above should help you reduce the layer count of the board.
Thanks,
Tejas Kulakarni
Hi Ralph & Tejas,
Thanks for your above suggestion.
I reviewed your HW design guideline document, however, it focuses more on the AM263Px Launchpad's EVM and AM263Px control cards. This is a 6-layer board, along with PTH and PTH via-in-pad technology.
In our case, we are referring to PROC159E2 EVM. This is a 10 layer board along with PTH technology. I thought it had a separate HW design guideline document as it has different stack-up decoupling caps etc.
Is it possible to share AM263Px Launchpad's EVM and AM263Px control card PCB design files for reference purposes?
Thanks & Regards,
Amit Teke
Hello Amit,
Sure, these are hosted on our tool pages for the devices.
The LP-AM263P design files can be downloaded from: https://www.ti.com/lit/zip/sprr503
The AM263P controlCard (PROC159A) files can be be downloaded from: https://www.ti.com/lit/zip/sprr492
Note that the PROC159E2 was a pre-production release and PROC159A is the production release which is why there is a difference in the E2 vs A nomenclature.
Best Regards,
Ralph Jacobi
Amit,
Neither of the above is necessarily mandatory when designing a PCB system with AM26x devices. However, it is strongly suggested to follow what has been outlined in the Hardware Design Guidelines document. The document reflects what has been implemented and proven to function properly on TI Evaluation Boards. By straying from what TI recommends, you assume the risk of improper operation of the AM26x device on your PCB system.
Regards,
Brennan
Hi Brennan,
Thanks for the confirmation...!
In Hardware Design Guidelines PTH via used in AM263Px LaunchPads -PROC171E2A whereas AM263x and AM263Px controlCards - PROC159A used PTH & PTH via-in-pad is recommended. We just want confirmation on the same.
Also please confirm whether is it possible to use 0402 decoupling capacitor under BGA?
Thanks & Regards,
Amit Teke
Hey Amit,
Both the variants of PTH and PTH via in pad are used in different boards as per their application and routing needs. PTH or PTH via in pad can be used as per the needs of the application. More dense applications can use PTH via in pad, less dense applications can use plain PTH. The same is explained in Section 11 Vias of https://www.ti.com/lit/an/sprabj8b/sprabj8b.pdf with respect to our EVMs.
possible to use 0402 decoupling capacitor under BGA
Based on the via size used in our EVMs it is not feasible to place 0402 decoupling capacitors under the BGA(BGA on top layer and decap on bottom layer). We have relied on using 0201 decaps under the BGA.
Thanks,
Tejas Kulakarni
Hi Tejas,
Thanks for the confirmation...!
I am referring AM263x and AM263Px controlCards - PROC159A EVM for our design & I have below few question
1) Which type of via used in this board? Type VII?
2) Did this VIP are used only for decoupling caps as most of the BGA pads are fan out?
Hi Amit,
1) Which type of via used in this board? Type VII?
There are multiple types of vias used. But if you are interested in the resin filled and cap plated vias, yes IPC 4761, Type VII vias are used. More details can be referred from: Fabrication Note 17 in PROC159A_FAB.pdf inside the design files of TMDSCNCD263P.
We will come back to you on the Via in Pad usage for fan out.
Thanks,
Tejas Kulakarni
Hi Amit,
Via-in-pad construction is used on some ICs with a thermal pad (for example, U84, U85, etc) on the AM263Px control card EVM.
For the AM263/Px BGA fan-out itself, via-in-pad is not used.
Regards,
Brennan
HI Brennan,
For the AM263/Px BGA fan-out itself, via-in-pad is not used.
Your above comment is inconsistent as compared to the recommendation provided in Section 11 Vias of https://www.ti.com/lit/an/sprabj8b/sprabj8b.pdf with respect to your EVMs.
"The AM263x controlCard made use of via-in-pad with PTH via construction. The via-in-pad construction was used to provide minimal decoupling capacitor mounting distances from the BGA. This resulted in a more optimal power distribution network at the cost of additional fabrication cycle time per PCB."
Regarding U84 & U85, the via's used under these IC's are look like normal thermal via & not a Via-in-pad construction.
Please check & confirm usage of Via in Pad in AM263x and AM263Px controlCards - PROC159A EVM.
Thanks & Regards,
Amit Teke
Amit,
Correct, the Hardware Design Guidelines document is incorrect and will be updated for the next revision.
The vias on the thermal pad are technically via-in-pad construction but are not resin filled & cap plated.
Regards,
Brennan
Amit,
Correct, there is no requirement for via-in-pad under the AM263Px BGA. You can certainly do it if you want, but it is not a design requirement.
Regards,
Brennan
Hello Team,
I again open this thread as I have another few questions,
What exactly the purpose of additional 2 GND layer (L4 & L7) in AM263x and AM263Px controlCards - PROC159A EVM?
Is this for EMI/EMC purpose or to route highspeed traces between two GND plane?
Thanks & Regards,
Amit Teke
Amit,
Since this is a new question, please start a new thread.
Regards,
Brennan
Hi Brennan,
As the above question is related to PCB stack up only (Thread Heading) and correlates with our earlier Q&A, I asked this question in the same thread.
If you still think need to start a new thread, let me know, and I will start new thread.
Amit,
Once a thread has been resolved by the original poster, it is better to start a new thread for organizational purposes.
I will answer here for convenience, but just for future reference
L4 and L7 GND layers are used to aid power integrity and EMI, since power is routed on L5 and L6. High-speed traces are routed on L3 and L8, between respective GND planes L2 and L9.
Regards,
Brennan
Hi Brennan,
Henceforth I will keep in mind your suggestion before close the thread. Please bear with me for this thread.
If we are using L4 & L7 GND layers for power integrity & EMI for AM263Px controlCards then how you manage the same in AM263Px LaunchPads with 6 layer stack up?
Thanks & Regards,
Amit Teke
Amit,
The AM26x LaunchPads are the low-cost evaluation platform for the AM26x devices. They are more optimized than the control cards in order to reduce cost and represent an inexpensive AM26x PCB solution for designers to base their systems off of. The LaunchPads have less hardware/external interfaces than the control cards, which influences the # of signals that need to be routed, and thus, the # of PCB layers.
On the LaunchPads, high-speed signals are routed on layer 3. The majority of the power is routed on layer 4. Layer 5 is the GND for the L4 power, and Layer 2 is the GND for L3 signal routing.
Regards,
Brennan