Withstanding too huge useless data-flow on forum

Hello Roberto,

This has been brought up in the past, but it is tough to segregate such questions as there is no mechanism in place to distinguish a beginner from an expert but the question. An expert can post for the first time in a forum a genuine issue while a beginner can bombard the forum with questions over-and-over again ranging from "how to code" to "give me a code".

The forum has to be fair for both sets of users. Moving posts between two sub forums may turn out to be more data management for me than to answer them.... At the same time more experienced forum members would also need to toggle between the sub forums (as I won't expect none of us not to as I would expect us to look into the beginners forum)

Regards
Amit

Amit Ashara said:

(as I won't expect none of us not to look into the beginners forum)

Huh?  Perhaps too many "negatives" clouds your meaning...

I'm afraid I'm going to have to agree with this. I've noticed that I no longer frequent this forum as much as I used to - the reasons unfortunately being what Roberto describes.

While I wouldn't want TI (or any other vendor for that matter) to withdraw from the "affordable dev-kit" market - that is after all what enabled my in-depth learning in this field, I can fully see that what's going on isn't sustainable development.

I cannot see how one could implement a non-intrusive, non-labour-intensive method of "sorting" forum users to "beginners" and "professionals". I deem myself belonging to both categories, slowly drifting towards the latter. Also, it isn't beneficial for anyone if a "promising" beginner who learns quickly is off-put by some "exam" you have to take to be able to access the "pro" area.

I don't have a perfect solution for the situation, but I have one idea I'd like to share:

For the LaunchPad line of products, do not promote CCS or any other of the "pro" IDEs as the primary platform. Instead, assign some resources to ensure that Energia has good enough support for the hardware bells and whistles present on the LaunchPads. Massively promote Energia as the go-to IDE for LaunchPads and ensure there's a lively beginner community where beginners are better understood. Then, in a back corner of the leaflet shipped with every LaunchPad, include a mention in the lines of: "Feeling pro? Know C? Check out CCS and the E2E forum!" Right now I get the feeling that it's somewhat the opposite - CCS is promoted as the primary platform and Energia is for those who for some reason "don't get it". As if it's some sort of a downgrade. It should be the other way around - Energia is the base level from which you could upgrade to CCS, if you're up to it.

I agree with Amit with several notes in addition, mostly assertions and observations of what I have seen elsewhere.

• It has been my experience that forums can handle a much larger influx than we have of "stupid" questions.  The big impediment to that here is the current layout which so tightly restricts the number of topics visible at once (which we hear is being worked on)
• The dividing line is not between the beginner and the expert, it is between the thoughtful and considerate poster and the posters that are the proverbial bull in the china shop that feel the world owes them ready made solutions. The issue isn't the poster that asks what he should check if his micro doesn't appear to start or who doesn't know what a pull-up is, it's the poster who posts "the cpu doesn't work tell me how to fix it". The subtle difference between those makes all the difference.
• Experts are enriched by the questions from beginners.
• When forums are split between beginner and expert when volumes are as low as they are here usually both forums die.  The beginners from the lack of the experience of more senior eyes, the expert from the lack of contributions. Perversly the splitting means the expert questions get fewer eyes and since the idea was to move the low signal to noise ratio items to the beginner forum it becomes less useful to the experts as well since they are more likely to get lost.
• If there had been an expertise test I would probably never have posted.
• There is a ready made and proven solution in the event the SNR does get too large.  That is moderation.  Posts pass through an approver before becoming public.  The approver checks for things like, its this a homework question?, does this insult or slight other members? Is the question posted to the proper forum? etc...
• Since moderation obviously imposes a burden on the host and slows down the conversation considerably (thus usually having a negative affect on a community that thrives on back and forth communication) a second alternative has grown up which is initial post moderation.  The first n posts of a contributer are moderated.  This is less of a burden on the host and does, in practice, increase the SNR.  The downside is if one of your first posts is because of an urgent situation while the host is on holiday the response becomes very slow. This will reduce the number of valid posts somewhat as well as the annoying ones.
• Groups develop a culture that with a little guiding hand to reinforce the norms actually mostly self police.

There is a dictum that has been given by science fiction editors to authors.  "You cannot change just one thing"  IE every change will affect more things than what you initially target.

Robert

 Hi Robert, I find your point of view more close than mine, what I mean is to leave S/N as High as possible otherwise information here get unusable by search and get forever noise than information.

Robert Adsett said:

If there had been an expertise test I would probably never have posted.

 I don't completely understand this point in in middle of two point, one is not split and other is S/N question so I start this last:

 I wish don't mix information between level not only to leave high S/N, we cannot block the usual fresh man or boy that come here to ask for help doing his job was not able to do at every level. This must be handled separately.

 TIVA require some different problem handling so probably some sub forum as is for C2000 maybe the better and leave all level visible on forum root. I recently started use the InstaSpin, I am beginner level on that topic, as BEGINNER I found some trouble to grasp how to use this large package so I don't found guidance I feel need this level due it is MY LEVEL too.

 Otherwise I found other usual problem immediately, identified and posted for solution. These are relative to CCS where also forum is splitted ( and separated  from compilers too) so I found "InstaSpin forum" more close to than "C2000 general discussion", problem come from specialized IDE and don't burden C2000 processor level.

 Again a "Beginner forum how to start" with some guidance in that highly specialized forum IMHO maybe useful, I encountered a kid screaming about running motor was not knowing about inertia nor material resistance, block this is impossible and screamed I need to go back to school, it see an internet yuotube where motor spin at 12Krpm.... In that view I can learn by mistake and team can read how to improve readability who got expert never see. At first usage of Launchpad C28027F and DRV8301 I wrote a guide on how to set environment and get it running instead of running a lot around site.

 Also TI site suffer of information disorder, it was one of the best sites now is broken manifold and convergence to stable information is too slow...

 I am sure this lack of information I experienced now never touch me when some month elapse and can be I can find again.  if I continue use it  error I encountered get solved at install than seeking for where are.

 Also this new forum software is very buggy and slow all we can do.

Robert Adsett said:

• There is a ready made and proven solution in the event the SNR does get too large.  That is moderation.  Posts pass through an approver before becoming public.  The approver checks for things like, its this a homework question?, does this insult or slight other members? Is the question posted to the proper forum? etc...

 This is more worst due as you say not also slow down answer, are not transparent when professional need ASAP and not least increase huge moderator work has to analyze all income of traffic too.

 Better can just be impose reading all rule to forum then ask some question about how to post, then IMPOSE a questionary to guide inserting all needed information we need:

 Which processor are you using:
 Are using a custom or devkit?

 Operative system:
 IDE:

 Have you checked general question rule?

 This can help a lot and too many useless question get filtered.

Robert Adsett said:

There is a dictum that has been given by science fiction editors to authors.  "You cannot change just one thing"  IE every change will affect more things than what you initially target.

 I fully agree but if we leave bad apple where is then in a short time we got all of them bad too.

Amit Ashara said:

This has been brought up in the past, but it is tough to segregate such questions as there is no mechanism in place to distinguish a beginner from an expert but the question. An expert can post for the first time in a forum a genuine issue while a beginner can bombard the forum with questions over-and-over again ranging from "how to code" to "give me a code".

 So proposed possible splitting tree:

 TM4C Microcontroller Forum

Programming

C Course basic

CCS problem

Examlples

Peripheral

UART Programming

USB Examples

ENET examples

CLOCK

EPI

External Hardware

General

LCD

I2C

....

Silicon ISSUES

.....

And now Apple or tomatoes can be used..

  See you next year hoping for better things.

Roberto Romano,

Thanks for your ongoing help to others on E2E! This is all good feedback. In line with what Amit said there are no plans to split up the Forum along these lines.

If there is especially any often repeated questions at any level and you get a chance be sure to ping us as those are the ones we will want to do a full review of to see why we are continually being asked it and putting in a plan of action to address.

Re the logo:

Is that thruster bit "off" or might that be "bit skewed" Exosite signal - depicted by (sideways) launch?

Hopes were (very) high w/your arrival - Exosite thread.  Reality of silence is as cold/unwelcome as "below zero" Midwest deep freeze...

You've never seen a half-rocket before? :) It appears certain flavors of avatars are off with the updated height handling and noted to correct.

I don't have super powers but any thing I get pinged with I do what I can with to help address or ping team members to look at asap. I'm always available whether mentioned in a post or sent a conversation message.

Blake Ethridge said:

ping team members to look at asap.

I'm (of course) far too polite - yet have heard "others" suggest that, "Club team members" may yield better (i.e. some) Exosite Fix results...

Hi Blake, just to see what happen to some other forum get unsplit? Example:
http://e2e.ti.com/support/applications/

 or sensor too,
From here (the root of all sub topic) you can see all fora application traffic, can see just few of last answers, before change there where more answer and full e2e traffic from say the root of all where visible. That was useful for me to search answer over ALL I was following, today I have to go back and forth to search who answered, ok I see there is a "Facebook like" <<messages for you>>.. But if Facebook rule is to be, then also add HOME page or WALL to have all conversation ordered and not sparse and intermixed to chaos.
On "Like" I think as many other feel is missing "Don't Like" too, I am not a great FB user and I know by person all we are in contact.

Then leave me get back to application forum or sensors too, it get some important Sub-Topic need be separated to have order when one search.
  Motor is still divided in two:

  -sensor-specific

  -- driver

Sensor fora is divided by physic principle.

 From root of both you can see all traffic and answer or enter specific area to see just that.

So why don't have an ordered forum where root is TIVA and leaf are thematic to a single development tool or peripheral or also general to help undecided posters?
Searching something can be simple, move to area, do a search or just read was in and sticker are appropriate to that and don't get too long.
SO it is your decision what to do, TIVA is not mission critical in my area, Is still in "last chance" opportunity, an IP core and a C2000 with CANBUS or competitor (FS) can wipe out from project after preproduction is running, the unmovable are MSP and C2000 series.

Blake, Just for exercise: I asked for end of transmission UART to move my RS485 protocol to TIVA, someone got me some suggestion, I am not able to find back.. Why?

 At last:
In Answer to fresh CB1 humour, I prefer a full rocket with secure thruster never burn user as is from TI DSP application stop blade from cutting finger.
Thank for all help and sorry for LONG post, we wish our best Amit resource the better we can.

 Edit: I am reading .. it look horrible, sorry for many mistakes I try get corrected if someone was reading before... Also missed and important "PREVIEW"!

 Also after rework can be worst, sorry I am not language native and I wrote too much.

The "Like" button is more in the context of "Was this forum thread useful?" or "Was this forum post useful?" When looking at solutions it gives anyone reviewing a vector on what was rated as most useful and by how many and/or what were the most useful posts in this thread.

Noted on conversation ordering as random display requires often too much time trying to find a message you are looking for.

Forum nomenclature is arrived at through carefully vetted business teams. Only commenting that there were no plans to offer beginner Forums. If there is a case for a break out above/beyond that we always vet that out.

Roberto Romano said:

Just for exercise, I asked for end of transmission UART to move RS485 to TIVA, someone got me some suggestion, I am not able to find back.. Why?

This is a forum thread you haven't gotten a response on or one you weren't able to find through searching?

Got it.

For that one in Google I would do, "uart RS485 MSP430 tm4c" and at least in my results it places that thread as first result. Usually adding in either "e2e" or "first part of forum name" to help give it one or two additional vectors to weed out noise.

For the E2E search, not to dissimilar if initial query doesn't work, then adding in first part of forum name. On the advanced search results page where it currently can be confusing is the default view is by thread only and not per post. So for it, I would uncheck "Threads only" and then under "Anywhere" filter update it to be TM4C Forum. There are a couple of other filters that can further refine including date, user, time and with replies or verified answers. A few more steps but depending on complexity of what I'm looking for offers more filters to narrow results.

Roberto Romano said:

too many wrong post burden results

Do you have one or two examples of this scenario?

marc_rir said:

But in that case, who will decide, and on what criteria, one is a novice and the other is an expert(or !novice)?

That can be the moderator, based on... own judgement I guess :)

marc_rir said:

I don't think it's a good idea(also, nobody wants to be called(or put in a box) a novice, even when they know they are, and I think there's no need to)...

Yes for that purpose "novice" topics don't get any tag, only "expert" topics do. 

I don't know, just my 2 cents...

Lacho Tomov said:

Does that make sense?

If, "Inmates running the Asylum" makes sense - then so too - your "guidance-free" proposal.

Simple Text - "Fill in the Blanks" Template guides, instructs, enforces (some) discipline upon the posting process.

Forcing Amit to read/review each/every "Does not Work!" - detail-free post - has (long) proven inadequate.  Your method (avoids) any correction to forum's present, "wild west" unconstructed postings...

Forum's adoption of (some) "Standard Operating Procedure" - which reduces or eliminates inane posts - is how every "sane" business or organization runs - but for here... 

To my mind - these facts are indisputable - we must better, "Guide, Instruct and Assist posters to enhance their efforts...  Template is best method to achieve that objective...

Appears to this reporter that two issues are central here:

a) Divide the Forum into (obvious) sub-categories

b) Enforce some guiding/instructing, Standard Operating Procedure upon posters (I believe a simple, "Fill in the Blanks" Template achieves that best)

Believe it best that we "settle" on some corrective direction - too many (competing) suggestions obscure the objective - and enable "status quo" to become "Cast in further - and deeper - STONE!  (even & especially when such "casting" is denied...)

marc_rir said:

Although a Template might be a good thing

A Template - driving towards a Forum Standard Operating Procedure - which (again) guides, instructs & enforces post discipline - can ONLY be a "good thing!"

The (other) points you bring: Tutorials, detailed examples, code samples all make sense - but they (stray) from the Forum format - do they not?  Indeed they have their place - but that's not here...

Writing style I've developed enables my job - our firm sits @ intersection of tech, legal, show-biz & finance - proper detail, cadence & emphasis is required.  If/when you have a question - or require clarification - I usually respond.  Minus your "example" of "proverbs or sayings" I've used - I'm powerless to explain...

cb1- said:

The (other) points you bring: Tutorials, detailed examples, code samples all make sense - but they (stray) from the Forum format - do they not?  Indeed they have their place - but that's not here...

Well, instead of using a ‘sticky’, have a sub-forum with tutorials for less advanced people, where advanced members or Ti staff, place/add tutorials and respond to the(relevant) questions, and thus keeping all ‘base’ stuff at one place.

How many times Amit, you and many others, guide people to the API, or need to show some primary configurations, which are mostly a copy and paste from the driver examples or the API itself.

Put it all in one place, and eventually it will grow and become better and better(meaning the example code itself, as some of us will give some hints on how to get it neater and clearer).

marc_rir said:

Well, instead of using a ‘sticky’

I had never conceived the Template method as a, "sticky" - that's just too, "hit or miss."  Instead -  the template could open (automatically) w/each "New Post" and thus, "Guide, Instruct and Enforce" a Standard Operating Procedure upon each/every new post.

Again those tutorials, deeper & broader examples, and common, "standard data repositories" will help - but all are imperiled (and held hostage) by the endless progression of uncaring, undisciplined, (do I hear unguided?), "Does not Work!" posts...

Guiding Template serves to effectively counter that - nothing else appears as intuitive & effective!