Arguments pro TivaWare against Arduino

Hello Bruno,

Some here may wish to support you w/"beyond" what you've asked.  

Might you enable your "Forum Conversations and/or Private Messaging" - I'll detail (privately) in that manner...

And - in the attempt to "broaden the appeal" of your posting - might your use of "Tiva" WITHIN the far broader "eco-system" that is Arduino - prove, "Less Hit or Miss ... ... Either-Or?"   Perhaps there is room for both - w/this vendor's devices tweaking/improving/extending - the operating reach & capability of Arduino.   (even if it is Italian)

I believe that you want to be expansive, inviting, even engaging - - - rather than limiting.   (limiting... i.e. "Arduino" NOT welcome!)   (I know from experience that municipalities often "pay" based upon participation - you need to maximize those user/visitor numbers - especially at the outset)

And - last but (surely) not least - outstanding young poster (college student) Luis lives in Portugal - knows well Arduino - and may prove ideal for your efforts... (but note - I saw/found Luis first!)

CB,

Thanks! I believe I just did. The most likely setting I found for such is:

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Good Bruno - you did just as requested - thank you. (I will make that effort worthwhile)

Do reread the point I added to initial post - you MUST meet & speak w/Luis - who lives in Portugal!

Sorry to race you, I know Luis! I met him personally last year in Coimbra, where he studies/lives during weekdays...
And again saw him at Makers Fair Lisbon last month...
And he's even supplied some coding for my company in Brazil on a project, highly sucessfully.
He is certainly a person who I'll invite to the project quite soon!
Only for Portuguese standards, unfortunately Coimbra is half a country away... (had they lived in Brazil, where after an hour and a half I'd still be stuck in the traffic in my own city...)

So Bruno - so glad you've met (bonded) w/Luis. He is a "crackerjack."

May I assume my 2016, Front Row, Olympic tickets (supplied by Bruno) are (now) in some jeopardy?

for those unclear - 2016 Olympics is in Brazil... (one hopes - construction continues...)

I've (already) written you via "conversation."

The time is barely a issue Bruno, it takes longer to travel to my hometown, and I actually have multiple options to stay at Lisbon for free :p
It's the money spent that is a issue - (gasoline and tolls or the tickets).

Your fight is something I fight with from almost day 1 since I came to college.
"arduino, arduino, arduino".

Well ok it's good, to an extent. Beginners should start with it. Just to get a bit of that little bit of the embedded world. But when they only know that it's normal when faced with a challenge they answer "there must be a library for that". Me it's more, ok let me think about it, it's probable.

----------An example that came up last year in a competition.----------------------------------------------------------------
The competition required a little robot to navigate between walls, this was done using a distance sensor, a sonar was the most common. Normally 2 at the same time. Not only that but you needed to read the color on the floor - so another sensor, a color sensor.
The color sensor had really quick readings. The sonar used a interface that returned the distance measured in a pulse with variable width (proportional to the distance measured). This pulse could go up 18ms in length - it rarely went up to that, 8ms was more common - and 36ms if a error occurred (somewhat common with really bad ebay sensors) . Now not only that but you should just do a measure every 50ms due to rouge echoes, this was best to get cleared readings, especially this cheap sensors.

So let's see this in arduino.
Reading the pulses was done with a blocking function - meaning a 4ms pulse would block the code completely for 4ms! Imagine the 36ms error! This means also that using 2 sonars would be about double the time - read one, then read the other.
Only then you could read the color sensor. This color sensor was used to detect a 1-2cm line!
So the total time between color readings would depend on the sonars measured distance, which was most of the time a total of 5-15ms - the result? Eager students to get a fast robot would never be able to complete the challenge - a fast robot would go over this line without seeing it most of the time - so the contest had slow robots always.

This was a standard. So sad. A contest is to bring innovation each year - reduced to most of the times the same.
Argumenting this with some participants they said "I should get the good sensors, it's like 60€ each (compared to the 1€ this one was) but at least it's a bit faster" - a bit! It's the same speed actually, you require those 50ms between readings, only the interface is faster.

Using only arduino caused this situation - only salvation? Hoping for someone to make a library to solve it...

-------------------------sorry for the long post, I hope my English isn't that bad , kinda out of practice -------------------------------------------


What did I do? Long story short, I used a interrupt and timers to manage everything "in the background" - basically I could get a color reading like every 100uS. Maybe not what I did, but if at least the notion of what you can really do, the power you have when leaving arduino, this would not be so common.
It was by far the fastest one in some years. To bad I was asked to make it 3 days before - didn't had a important sensor for another objective that I didn't refer.

I think the "excessive use" of arduino makes the users have complete ignorance about the limitations too!
Some students came here the other day trying to make a quadcopter. They we're using a 8bit, 16Mhz Arduino. My instant response, you will no be able to do that with standard Arduino - they even left strings printing to serial, when I called them on that they didn't understand at all "what are you saying? this thing is so powerful".





Now if you are interested and I haven't been talking more than I should I could tell you my approach in students at the club.

Might there be - just maybe - an Arduino "eco-system baby" mixed in - w/that (discarded) Arduino bath water?

Do not "many" know of Arduino? In reality - how many know of Tiva? (even that name's gone EOL/NRND)

Inclusion - never exclusion - proves almost always a superior path for Bruno. Too few participants - his campaign is likely to stall - and then die!

Exploiting the uber-rich Arduino "eco-system" (huge number of boards, sensors, software, users!) to my mind - is the best way to (gradually) wean users to a, "better" MCU...   Arduino MUST be welcomed!

Btw, how rude of me,

Hi Bruno, Hi cb1.


My suggestion here - don't ditch arduino.

You want to know how I learn to program Tiva? With Energia!
I started to make little projects with Tivaware - but sometimes it required knowledge I did not have - so I mixed in Energia libraries.
Why? Motivation!
Seeing something you made working is awesome!

In time I would try using new peripherals, losing more and more Energia code in my projects.
Then I started seeing the power I had! So much control, new things I couldn't do before!

Then CCS! I only used CCS with full Tivaware. But I discovered debugging tools!
But you know what? You can use some debugging features just as fine with Energia libraries. CCS supports Energia sketches.

Done with Energia? You already got on your hands a processor much better than the little ATMega - you could argue if you like the ATMega, but note this - the launchpads have a programmer/debugger.


Now which target? I face usually 3 types, mostly 2.
People that never heard of MCU;
Arduino users;
Other MCU users, usually PIC around here. I'm no gonna discuss these here.

The 1st case.
Still don't thrown them to Tivaware or something like that. Let them learn in steps. I usually do that and I advise, unless you have the extra time to go full low level.

2nd case.
Show them the familiarity, how they can use what they know, how the hardware is better and the improved tools. Then of course the advantages that even just mixing gives.


And always something I try to do is tell/show them what is there out of arduino or what they are using. Many I see, they know 1, they never try to search for others and are hindered by the limitations of the particular platform they use.
And that's the point - don't discard arduino/energia, instead use it where it should (even with mixing a bit).

Recently I made a project with some Energia libraries. I needed a RF transceiver working fast for a 1 off. I was not gonna take time to develop on it.

Hi Luis,

Let the record show that your name has come up - repeatedly (and by far the most often) - throughout this thread!   (although "cb1" snuck into original post)

I've "liked" (again) your writing - all good engineering points.

Yet our poster seeks business advice - and here I believe it's most clear that "Inclusion" not "Exclusion" - speaks to his project's successful Launch - even its Survival!

No one "knows" Tiva/TM4C.   Many "know" Arduino.   Case closed!   I'm an investor - yet I'd, "not throw a dime" at Tiva restricted, municipal tech zone...

Welcome ALL - then - as & if able - convert the masses.   (just as you outline)

Goal ONE of (any) small biz: "Open the Doors!"   (i.e. Gain facility & funding for staff, equipment, supplies)

Goal TWO: "Keep the Doors Open!"   (i.e. Continue and strive to enlarge participation base, produce (some) income)

Arduino (alone) provides that force...

yea...

For what I say to work you still need the Arduino. You need to have like arduino+some more or else everyone will be "what's that?". Or else you will get few people to even convince in the first place.
A steady supply of Arduinos would also be needed. Any project would need to have the option to use a Arduino.

With that I can help a bit, we still use them here a lot - Thinking about it, to those that never came to the club, it's usually the word "arduino" that gets them to visit, to be curious and come to the workshops. Of course once inside I got a couple working with Energia and low level programming too! (some)

Do consider that Bruno's (unlikely) to fund/found this venture - he (needs) the muni. to "buy into" this!

And the only way that happens is if "ARDUINO" is the key promotion.   Again - who knows (or cares) of Tiva?

That's the clear business case - I've no doubt - and the wealth of eval, sensor & special/adapter boards - all under the Arduino umbrella!

Surely "over-whelm" those "Zero-Ohm" blessed (cursed, really) ones here - do they not?    (can you imagine Bruno's explaining to the muni folk - why LPad's all fail - due to 0Ω's continued presence - this IN SPITE of Luis & cb1's REPEATED, "cry to fix."   (always noted - and ignored))    There IS a reason to fix/correct - although those here - show no such recognition nor desire!