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what causes big clock drift?

Other Parts Discussed in Thread: MSP430F4132

I'm using MSP430F4132's in a watch-like product.  I took 20 samples off our production run and synced each one's RTC with the same external computer.  After 24 hours, 1 of them had drifted by 3 hours, 2 by appx 30 minutes, and most by 1-2 minutes.  In every case the MSP ran slower than it should have.

I took one of the worst offenders and checked the OFIFG clock fault bit.  It is going on and off intermittently.  But none of the individual clock fault bits (XT1OF, DCOF) are set when I check.

I'm sourcing ACLK from a 32KHz crystal oscillator and MCLK from the DCO.  Outputting the signals to MSP pins, and putting them on an oscilloscope, I see reasonable frequencies (32KHz and 1MHz respectively).

Could my problem be (variable) parasitic capacitance on the PCBs between the crystal oscillators and MSP430s?  I haven't talked to my PCB manufacturer yet; I'd like to check everything I can via software first.  Anyone have any suggestions?

 

  • A drift of 1-2 minutes is almost normal. 2 minutes out of 1440 is ~1%. Not really good, but not too bad (a normal PCs RTC is in the same range). I guess, for these, the basic PCB layout might be the reason. Parasitic capacitace will slow down the crystal. A common mistak is a GND layer below the crystal and specifically below the two wires that lead from the crystal to the MSP. YOu should not have a GND immediately below the HF signal wires, and any GND plane below the crystal should be separated from teh GND layer totally except for a small connection. The HF signals on the upper side (and current, that is) form low-impedance paths on the GND layer, channeling currents to flow below them with increased probability.

    30 minutes or 3 hours is far off. Here the problem is more severe: crosstalk from a near signal line that is higher than on the 'working' samples (maybe even oscillation by an unlucky RCL or RC combination nearby, that coincidentally - by tolerance - forms a harmonic resonance with the crystal), defective PCB (micro-shortcuts that cause parasitic currents).

    "HF follows strange paths" is a basic rule for HF engineers.

  • This could also be caused by a mismatch between the crystal used and the MSP430. What brand and model of crystal are you using?

  •  

    Crystal = MIcroCrystal CM8V-T1A, ceramic package 32.768Khz supposed to be good for MSP430s.

    Tolerance is +-100ppm, which if I'm doing the calculations right, should drift a max of 8 sec per day.

     

  • MIcroCrystal is very familiar with the needs of MSP430 and very responsive. I suggest that you contact them and tell them your problems.


  • Adam Hoover said:
    Tolerance is +-100ppm

    That's for the exact load capacitance. Any additional parasitic capacitance will have a large influence.

    In my RTC applicaitons, I use a 5,6pF adjustable capacitor. It allows me to adjust the crystal frequency, so I get from several minutes to below 1 second drift per day. You see, a few pF make a big difference.

  • My next 30 units showed similar time drift problems.  Definitely a design flaw we need to fix, but I'm not sure whether to look at alternative crystals, use external caps (currently relying on the MSP430 internal caps only), or include a ground ring around the crystal (space is at a premium so we skipped the ring, but maybe that was a terrible idea?).

    I've been trying to contact Micro Crystal but they are not responsive.  Anyone have a contact there?

     

  • Please disregard my last post.  I finally got to talk to someone at Micro Crystal and they were extremely nice and helpful.

     

  • Would you mind sharign the results with us (if any)?

  •  

    Turned out we had 2 issues:  oscillator lines too close to LCD lines, and some oscillators being damaged during PCB placement.  The latter problem is being addressed in PCB manufacturing but the first problem was a design issue.  For those who see this problem, remember that LCD lines are square-wave alternating current which are very bad to have next to low-power oscillator lines.  For our next batch we redesigned the PCB to move them farther apart.  We also are trying to put a ground ring on an inner layer of our multi-layer PCB, to further isolate the oscillator.

    I can't give enough thanks to the guys at Micro Crystal.  They were very helpful.  I shipped them a couple units and they tested the oscillators finding both our problems and making recommendations for future production.

     

     

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