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MSP430F5510: Trapezoidal BLDC motor control Solution.

Pradeep Vishwakarma
Prodigy 50 points
Part Number: MSP430F5510
Other Parts Discussed in Thread: DRV8316, DRV8329

Hi All,

We are developing trapezoidal BLDC motor control solution for 1KW BLDC motor. Please suggest us, if there is any low cost solution available using MSP430 or any other Low cost TI microcontroller. 

Best regards,

Pradeep

  • 0
    TI__Mastermind 25135 points

    Hi Pradeep,

    Thanks for post the thread in MSP low-power microcontroller forum.

    As for trapezoidal BLDC motor solution, we are currently suggesting customer use MSPM0 devices, which are recently released to market.The product link refers to: https://www.ti.com/microcontrollers-mcus-processors/arm-based-microcontrollers/arm-cortex-m0-mcus/overview.html.

    MSPM0L series provide a lower cost solution, maybe you are intersted in it. Meanwhile, MSPM0G series can provide a higher performance solution if L series doesn't meet your requirement.

    For the specific device recommendation on it, can you provide the following information:

    1. Is the microcontroller implementing the Motor Control Algorithm?

    2. Open control or Closed Loop control (Current, Speed)?

    3. Sensored (Hall or QEI) or Sensorless?

    4. How is the control frequency, PWM frequency (KHz)?

    5. Any other requirement for microcontroller? Like communication/ circuit protection/ ...

    B.R.

    Sal

  • 0 in reply to Sal Ye
    Prodigy 50 points

    Hi Sal,

    Thanks for the quick response!

    yes MSPM0 seems good for requirement.

    1) Yes in microcontroller, algorithm will be implemented.

    2) Closed loop with current control and speed control both

    3) Hall sensor will be used

    4) 10Khz to 15 Khz PWM Frequency

    5) Over/under current/voltage protection, over temperature protection, motor startup fail detection.

    Currently we are looking to develop trapezoidal motor control solution for controlling 1KW hall sensor based BLDC motor. 

    Please help me with any resource, sdk or sample project available for controlling BLDC motor using MSPM0 or any other low cost TI controller.

    Best regards,

    Pradeep

  • +1 in reply to Pradeep Vishwakarma
    TI__Mastermind 25135 points

    Hi Pradeep,

    Currently we have the sdk code example for hall sensored BLDC, which named "motor_control_bldc_sensored_trap_hall" in SDK (version 1.10 or newer).

    It is based on MSPM0G series and achieve the align & open loop function, it will include closed-loop control in future. The resource of MSPM0G can meet all your requirements. I think you can start the project based on it.

    By the way, here is a reference design for BLDC hall sensored control: https://www.ti.com/tool/TIDA-010251.

    Then if you looks for a more cost-effective solution, maybe you can transfer the code to L series. From a personal point of view, it is little hard for 15kHz control frequency with closed loop control (Update the PWM duty within 1/15 ms), but it's worth a try.

    B.R.

    Sal

  • 0 in reply to Sal Ye
    Prodigy 50 points

    Hi Sal,

    What PWM frequency, do you suggest using this controller having closed loop?

    Do we have any timeline of closed loop control release?

    Is these any TI solution (With TI motor control sdk) running in the market using Trapezoidal control?

    Best Regards,

    Pradeep

  • 0 in reply to Pradeep Vishwakarma
    TI__Mastermind 25135 points

    Hi Pradeep,

    Pradeep Vishwakarma said:
    What PWM frequency, do you suggest using this controller having closed loop?

    For L series, I suggest aoround 10kHz for the whole closed-loop control and state machine, it is relevant to the algorithm. and For G series, it can exceed 20kHz.

    Pradeep Vishwakarma said:
    Do we have any timeline of closed loop control release?

    Sorry, there isn't a sepcific timeline for this, maybe in next quarter this year. I suggest you start with the released SDK. It can currently spin the motor with TI's DRV, currently is DRV8329 and DRV8316(SPI interface).

    Pradeep Vishwakarma said:
    Is these any TI solution (With TI motor control sdk) running in the market using Trapezoidal control?

    Please refer to reference desgin: https://www.ti.com/tool/TIDA-010251. And yes, we have some customers evaluating and using this solution.

    B.R.

    Sal

  • 0 in reply to Sal Ye
    Prodigy 50 points

    Hi Sal,

    As our solution will be using closed loop control only. And we'll be launching the product in the market at the end of december 2023 only. So clarity is require.

    I wanted to use TI solution, as solution on MSP430 is already available from many years. But this solution is quite old (please find link attached). So any solution on MSP430 for trapezoidal control will also work to us.

    https://www.ti.com/lit/pdf/slaa503

    Best regards,

    Pradeep

  • 0 in reply to Pradeep Vishwakarma
    TI__Mastermind 25135 points

    Hi Pradeep,

    As for MSP430 device for this, I think you can refer to following document: https://www.ti.com/lit/an/slaa967a/slaa967a.pdf, However, partial software solution use a inappropriate closed loop control method due to it is quite old.

    Pradeep Vishwakarma said:

    I wanted to use TI solution, as solution on MSP430 is already available from many years. But this solution is quite old (please find link attached). So any solution on MSP430 for trapezoidal control will also work to us.

    https://www.ti.com/lit/pdf/slaa503

    Best regards,

    I have gone through the software code, I think it is enough for evaluating trapezoidal control based on MSP430 device (The solution use MSP430F552x). Actually it only includes speed closed loop control (consistent with the slaa503) and process the PID regulator in main loop which can increase the PWM frequency. So, you may need to add more function you required, like current closed loop control.

    As for now, seems that both 430 device and M0 device solution need your work to add functionality based on code example. Then, I will recommend M0 device mroe, it has higher performance than 430 device, and refer to 430 solution, you can add closed loop function based on our released SDK .

    B.R.

    Sal

  • 0 in reply to Sal Ye
    Prodigy 50 points

    Hi Sal,

    Thanks for the detailed information!

    Please help me with the following information for more clarity!

    1) As MSPM0 is recently released controller and Motor control solution SDK for MSPM0 also released in 2023 only. So, how reliable the solution is? Is the solution proven? Is there any customer using this solution? Is there any product developed using this motor control SDK available in the market?

    2) I understand by taking reference of MSP430 solution, closed loop solution can be implemented in MSPM0. How easy or difficult to port the closed loop control part from MSP430 to MSPM0? What changes I'll have to do to implement this in MSPM0?

    Best Regards,

    Pradeep

  • +1 in reply to Pradeep Vishwakarma
    TI__Mastermind 25135 points

    Hi Pradeep,

    1) We have verificated the code and spin the motorin on bench test. As for the customer and products, I am not familiar with it, I suggest you contact TI regional sale office.

    2) If you have learned the principle of BLDC closed loop control, I will say it is not hard, the work is to add two regulators (always use PI regulator) to control the PWM duty for closed loop control. However, It may need more effort to finish PI parameters tuning, improving the motor control performance, the complete control state machine, or others you need for your application.

    B.R.

    Sal

  • 0 in reply to Sal Ye
    Prodigy 50 points

    Hi Sal,

    Thank you so much for the clarification. Now we are definitely going to use the MSPM0 controller only.

    One more point why I am unable to download this MSPM0 motor control sdk internal user guide documents. available on the following link. I requested for the access 4-5 days back, still i awaiting for the response.

    So kindly check the issue and allow me to download the document.
     
     
    User guide : sprad34.pdf
    link for downloading the Sensored Trap with MSP Motor Control sdk internal document: 

     https://www.ti.com/licreg/docs/swlicexportcontrol.tsp?form_id=329848&prod_no=MSPM0-DESIGN&ref_url=epd_msp_msp 

    Best regards,

    Pradeep

  • 0 in reply to Pradeep Vishwakarma
    TI__Mastermind 25135 points

    Hi Pradeep,

    I am not sure why its download failed, I process it normally. Maybe you can contact the email address listed in your screenshoot.

    By the way, if you download the latest SDK version, you will also find the instructions for BLDC motor control sdk instructions, which may be helpful.

    Refers to: C:\ti\mspm0_sdk_1_10_00_05\docs\english\middleware\motor_control_bldc_sensored_trap_hall.

    B.R.

    Sal 

  • 0 in reply to Sal Ye
    Prodigy 50 points

    Hi Sal,

    I have already the mail multiple times but no response received. If possible please share the downloadable link here.

    Also, we will be using around 2g GPIO's, so please suggest the MSPM0 controller for the same.

  • 0 in reply to Pradeep Vishwakarma
    TI__Mastermind 25135 points

    Hi Pradeep,

    Please gives me an email address, I will forward it to you.

    For the controller, as one PWM phase output needs two pin (high bridge and low bridge), so your selection need add 3 more pins. Meanwhile, there are four pins is used for power supply, so it seems your solution will use 33 pins. Then I will recommend MSPM0G110x/G150x 48pin. (The difference of the two device is the analog resource, and math accelerator)

    Actually, for BLDC motor control, current sense with one bus current detection is enough, so you only use 29 pins. Then MSPM0G 110x/150x 32pin will be a good solution.

    Then if you want a more cost-effective solution, then consider MSPM0L 32pin (32 pin is the max pinmux of the L series.).

    They are pin-to-pin compatible when you select the same package.

    B.R.

    Sal

  • 0 in reply to Sal Ye
    Prodigy 50 points

    Hi Sal,

    We will go with 48 pin MCU. Everything seems good. But when i check the MCU on TI website, it says these controllers are not production. So, I am unable to understand. How to start the development as the MCU is not is production. 

    Best Regards,

    Pradeep

  • 0 in reply to Pradeep Vishwakarma
    TI__Mastermind 25135 points

    Hi Pradeep,

    Currently, it is not released to market. The specific time I can not give you currently, but I assume it is earlier than Dec 2023.

    You can apply for it in TI Samples if could, or contact TI regional office to get more supports, or contact our customer support center.

    B.R.

    Sal

  • 0 in reply to Sal Ye
    Prodigy 50 points

    Hi Sal,

    Thanks, We'll connect with TI regional office.

    Best regards,

    Pradeep

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