This thread has been locked.

If you have a related question, please click the "Ask a related question" button in the top right corner. The newly created question will be automatically linked to this question.

UCC256402: Frequency Jitter and Design Calculator questions from adapted PMP21683

Part Number: UCC256402
Other Parts Discussed in Thread: PMP21683, , UCC256302, UCC256403

Tool/software:

Hello,

We are working with a redesigned version of the 550W EVM PMP21683, it has been updated to use the UCC256402 instead of the UCC256302. We are able to regulate 54Vout, but our objective with this EVM is to minimize frequency jitter, in order to more accurately analyze AC losses at a fixed frequency. However, we have not been able to minimize this jitter. Below is an example; the shown trace is a persistence plot of the primary Switch Node, where color brightness indicates the prevalence of the EVM operating at that condition:

The above capture is taken at 540W (10A @ 54V) in steady-state, and we are seeing the switching frequency vary from 51.5kHz to 73.5kHz, with no clear operating point.

Is the UCC256402 designed to have this amount of frequency variation?

Also, the PMP21683 test report shows a typical switching frequency of about 83kHz at roughly the same load. With the same magnetics and resonant tank, why might we be operating at a lower switching frequency range compared to this design?

We have made adjustments to the VCR capacitor divider, but have encountered issues there also. When we used the pair of capacitors recommended by the design file, we saw even more jitter and this instability was even leading to OCP or another fault.

It was only when we decreased the VCR divider pair that we saw more consistent operation. Is this divider intended to be used to adjust the steady-state frequency variation? 

We have made other changes to try and prevent the frequency variation, as well. One change we initially made in moving from the UCC256402 to the UCC256302 was the removal of the pull-up diode on the FB pin (see D107 below). It was our understanding that this diode should be unnecessary for the UCC25640x series controller, because of the higher IFB current source used to bias the optocouple. However, removing this diode or insufficiently biasing it was leading to major instability, including at startup, where output voltage would reach more than 75V, before regulating back to 54V (see below before and after the diode was biased correctly).

What might cause this pull-up diode to be necessary?

Before:

After:

We also have questions about the "Compensation and Transient" design calculator provided by TI. We first attempted to choose values for the compensation network which provided a 4kHz crossover frequency and >35deg phase margin, but this led to a very slow transient response that we deemed unacceptable. After incrementing the RV/CV pole in the compensation network to give the best transient response, we plugged these values into the design calculator and they showed a -60 degree phase margin, even though the actual response was the best we'd seen.

Why might there be such a discrepancy?

Kind regards,

Orion Kress-Sanfilippo

  • Orion,

    Happy to help here. Seems to me that the feedback loop is not stable so the freq keeps changing. Since your Vout and Pout changed, please check the gain curve to make sure you have enough margin to avoid ZCS region.  If would be good to share waveforms with single capture but large time scale. Also include the VCR and FB pin waveform

    You don't need the diode on the FB pin to RVcc. Our design file shows "DNP". The fact you are seeing Vout fluctuation indicates that the loop is not stable and FB may be clamped by the diode.

    Please share the full list of BOM change from the ref design (around IC). 

    Your Vcr question is not clear to me. What was the value you changed? Can you share the waveforms?

    BTW, this ref design is similar to what you have, but using UCC256403. You may compare the BOM to get more ideas.

    https://www.ti.com/tool/TIDA-010080

    Please also refer to the application note section of the product page to understand how Vcr tuning work, starting from this material

    https://www.ti.com/lit/pdf/sluaal2

    Ning

  • Hi Ning,

    See attached design calculator file for the updated BOM around the IC. 

    UCC25640x Design Calculator Rev4.0_IDEAL_EVM_08152025.xlsx

    Here is the single-shot capture of VFB (Ch1), VSW (Ch2), VCR,PIN (Ch3) and Vout (CH4).

    1. To be clear, we are not seeing significant Vout fluctuation when using the diode. See below, which looks similar to the PMP21683.

    Our design:

    PMP21683 Test Report:

    Also, looking closely at the PMP21683 test report, I see that there is some change in frequency variation (jitter) at steady-state, and the fsw is higher than on our design.

    2. What is the expected amount of frequency variation for this board? The reason I am asking is because while the converter seems to operate normally from an output regulation standpoint, it makes our loss analysis very difficult when each cycle is different. We would prefer to have the frequency fixed at each operating point (or with minimal variation). 

    3. Also, do you know why we are operating at a lower typical fsw than the original design, with the same resonant tank?

    As for the VCR changes, we went through a wide range of values for the VCR-pin capacitors, which were originally C_upper = 150pF and C_lower = 6800pF on the PMP21683. Based on the calculator, the recommended values for our design were 11584.2pF and 83pF, but using these values yielded even larger instability, where the switching frequency would range from 40kHz to 120kHz with no typical operating point (see below). 

    At this point, we also did not have the zener diode on FB. After this, we reduced the overall capacitance on the VCR pin, making C_upper = 33pF and C_upper = 4700pF, and added in the diode on FB pin, and saw less frequency jitter.

    Orion

  • Orion,

    We will review the design file and get back to you as soon as we can.

    Best,

    Ning

  • Hi Orion,

    Can you please put 10k resistor in R135 and check voltage across this resistor when maximum zittering is happening?

    Please check the voltage across this resistor is changing or not?

    Regards,

    Sougata

  • Hi Sougata,

    Changing the resistor to 10kOhm stopped the EVM from regulating output voltage. I reduced it to 1kOhm and captured the below snapshot (Ch1 is V_R135, Ch2 is V_OUT, Ch3 is Primary Switch Node). These are the same view, the first is at 10us/div, second is at 100us/div.

    Orion

  • Hi, 

    It seems current in FB pin changed when frequency is changing. Please ensure that load condition, Vin, Vout is constant. If FB pin current is changing even if load is same, then feedback may need to be finetuned. But before that, can you increase the cap C145 to 1nF and then check, at constant load and constant Vin, frequency is changing or not? Also check voltage across 1kOhm at that time. Is it changing or not?

    Regards,

    Sougata

  • Hi Sougata,

    Thank you for the guidance, we are starting to see much more consistent behavior after that change.

    Increasing this capacitance to 1nF reduced the amount of frequency change at 10Aload, although the shape of the FB pin current was changed (see below).

    We were still seeing large changes in frequency at light load, so I increased this capacitor to 4.7nF, and it improved light load jitter.

    Ning Tan made the point earlier in this thread that the zener diode on the FB pin (D107) is unnecessary, so I removed it after increasing C145, and the EVM is still functioning normally (in the past, removing the zener caused output instability). In addition, the DC current through resistor R135 went down from 1.5mA to just 50uA (see below).

    Finally, I was seeing some Vout fluctuation after these changes (see below, Ch1 is Primary Switch Node, Ch2 is Output Voltage, Ch3 is Secondary VDS), but these were solved after readjusting the compensation loop. The updated design file is attached at the bottom of this message.

    The last problem I'm seeing is related to transient response. Below is a capture of output voltage during a load jump from 50%-100% load. (Ch1 is Primary Switch Node, Ch2 is Output Voltage, CH3 is Secondary VDS).

    The recovery time here is very slow, almost 80ms. However, using these values in the design calculator provides a reasonable 10kHz crossover frequency and 32deg phase margin, and the plotted transient response in the calculator file does not match this behavior. How can we improve the recovery time?

    UCC25640x Design Calculator Rev4.0_IDEAL_EVM_08212025.xlsx

    Thanks,

    Orion

  • Hi Orion,

    Can you please increase the gain crossover frequency to 20kHz and PM of 45 degree by finetuning the compensator?

    Regards,

    Sougata

  • Hi Sougata,

    We found an error in the design calculator that was changing the expected results for crossover freq. and PM (the Opto CTR was set to 200x rather than 200%). 

    How will adding capacitance to the FB pin affect the Bode plot of this compensation? We don't see any reference to this capacitance in the design calculator.

    Orion

  • Hi, 

    Can you please use Bode 100 or similar type of instrument to check loop response and finetune compensator? This will be much more realistic. 

    Adding cap to the FB pin will not affect bode plot that much, rather this will reject noise and will make FB pin current stable.

    Regards,

    Sougata

  • HI Sougata,

    We do not have access to a network analysis tool, so we cannot check our loop response at this time. You say that adding capacitance does not affect the Bode plot, but we have seen it make a significant difference in V_out stability.

    Is there any way to predict the effect of adding capacitance at this pin without the use of a network analyzer?

    Also, we have a question about the VCR capacitors. The datasheet for UCC256402 seems to state that the voltage on the VCR capacitors affect the turn-off of the primary MOSFETs, and when these are off, there is no power transfer to the output. Is there a way to change the VCR capacitors such that this "No Power Transfer" time interval (marked below) is smaller? We want to decrease the number of oscillations that occur on the SR VDS during this period.

    Thanks,

    Orion

  • Hi Orion,

    I believe that increasing cap in FB pin is filtering out the noise in FB pin which basically stabilises the current pulled out from FB pin for same power. Therefore, you are seeing much stable Vout and frequency will not change in same power and same Vin, Vout. Although it can be verified by Bode 100.

    There is no other way to predict the effect of adding capacitance at this pin without network analyser. Although, you can use Controller's simplis model to finetune the compensator in simulation which is available in website.

    You can't  control the off time, it is adaptive. However, can you please give oscilloscope picture at same time with SW, LO, HO, SR_VDS1, SR_VDS2, Ires?

    and which SR controller IC you are using?

    Regards,

    Sougata