TPS25751: TPS25751EVM + Bq25756EVM Power Path for PDO 1 PP1 and PP3 Source Issue

Part Number: TPS25751
Other Parts Discussed in Thread: BQ25756EVM, BQSTUDIO, , BQ25756, BQ25798

Tool/software:

Hi,

I'm using TPS25751EVM and Bq25756EVM togerher with considering the connection specified in the user guide. I succeed to work them properly for a single physical cell LFP 3.2V properly with selecting PP1 source for PDO1.

I made some of changes to be able to work them together properly:

1) Add external boost converter from battery to generate PP5V. This boost converter 800mA current limited. 

2) PP5V also used for "EXT_DRV" for the module BQ25756EVM.

3) "LDO_3V3" supply via J11 connector to BQ25756EVM SMBUS.

If I select PP1 source for PDO 1;

*Sink from charger 20V-15V-9V-5V at 3A without any problem. Battery goes into the charing.

*If I connect source I can get 5V/200mA or 5V/2.5A depending on the source and also 20V/3A it gives properly.

I dont want to use extra boost converter like 3.2V to 5V/3.6A since the size of the PCB is limited and cost issue. So I have tried to select which is specified PPHV source for PP3 for PDO 1.

At that moment sink is working properly but when I connect a source VBUS goes into hiccup mode and restart always.

At that moment;

*PP5V and LDO_3V still remain constant. When look at the VBUS, It behaves ON 5V and goes into the 0V again. It tries each second and goes into loop. I can not get any source if I connect other source like 20V/3A.

There might be clue for the find the reason, if I disconnect J11 ribon cable between BQ25756EVM and TPS25751EVM to be able to reach via BQSTudio to read registers, at that time if I connect source again the TPS25751 J3 connector can source successfully.

I believe in that the BQ25756EVM is working properly and I aleady tested on the bech standalone and it's working properly with full the voltage range as specified. I think there is a protection caused by the TPS25751 goes into the hiccup mode when I select PP3.

Could you please check the .json file? You may find the what am I missing?

{
  "questionnaire": {
    "device": "TPS25751",
    "toolBuildVersion": "1.1.0",
    "answers": [
      null, 0, 3, 3, 0, 0, 3, 0, 1, 1, 1, 3, 4, 3, 1.536, 15, 0.25, 1, 0
    ],
    "vendorId": "0000",
    "productId": "0000",
    "version": "1.0.0.2"
  },
  "configuration": {
    "data": {
      "selected_ace": [
        {
          "register": 6,
          "data": [0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0]
        },
        {
          "register": 22,
          "data": [0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,3]
        },
        {
          "register": 40,
          "data": [2,1,63,75,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1]
        },
        {
          "register": 41,
          "data": [210,0,128,0]
        },
        {
          "register": 50,
          "data": [
            5,170,42,44,
            145,
            49,
            32,
            44,
            225,
            2,
            0,
            44,
            177,
            4,
            0,
            44,
            177,
            148,
            237,
            44,
            65,
            54,
            32,
            0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
          ]
        },
        {
          "register": 51,
          "data": [
            4,44,145,1,16,44,209,2,0,44,177,4,0,44,65,54,
            0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
          ]
        },
        {
          "register": 55,
          "data": [118,192,18,65,144,145,33,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0]
        },
        {
          "register": 66,
          "data": [10,0,8,0]
        },
        {
          "register": 92,
          "data": [207,12,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,4,0,0,0,4,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0]
        },
        {
          "register": 112,
          "data": [3]
        },
        {
          "register": 119,
          "data": [0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,4,0,45,0]
        },
        {
          "register": 120,
          "data": [0,0,0,128]
        },
        {
          "register": 122,
          "data": [0,0,0,0]
        },
        {
          "register": 123,
          "data": [0,2,255,255,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0]
        },
        {
          "register": 125,
          "data": [0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0]
        },
        {
          "register": 126,
          "data": [0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0]
        },
        {
          "register": 152,
          "data": [0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0]
        }
      ]
    }
  }
}

  • Hello,

    I dont want to use extra boost converter like 3.2V to 5V/3.6A since the size of the PCB is limited and cost issue. So I have tried to select which is specified PPHV source for PP3 for PDO 1.

    The PP5V is required for the TPS25751 to support source mode even when PDO1 (5V) is selected for PP3.

    At that moment sink is working properly but when I connect a source VBUS goes into hiccup mode and restart always.

    I can still help debug as to why this is not working (even though PP5V is provided) but your overall goal (to remove PP5V) is not supported by the device.  Let me know how you would like to proceed.

    Regards,
    Chris

  • Hello Chris,

    I'm planning to use 3v to 5V boost converter with 500mA (max) in my design. I dont want to design 5V/3.3A since the placement limited and the issue of cost. 

  • Hello,

    2) PP5V also used for "EXT_DRV" for the module BQ25756EVM.

    Have you attempted to connect JP12 1-2 to see if the behavior is the same as without the ribbon cable?  (corrected: removed reference to J6 which is not JMP6)

    This is the default configuration shown in the TPS25751 EVM Users Guide:

    There might be clue for the find the reason, if I disconnect J11 ribon cable between BQ25756EVM and TPS25751EVM to be able to reach via BQSTudio to read registers, at that time if I connect source again the TPS25751 J3 connector can source successfully.

    I am not sure how that would work.  If the ribbon cable is disconnected, then how does the BQ part to configure the output voltage?  

    (corrected: removed confusion of JP6 and JMP6)

    Regards,
    Chris

  • I have tried to use REGN to supply. Both of them the same result. REGN gives an output 4V then goes to 0V with hiccup. Therefore, I used ext_drv to be sure fets drive voltage stabil.

    REGN is also used in the to supply smbus and ntc. I also remove jumper Jp5 and supply ecternal 5v pin 2. JP6 installed an tried. Also tried Jp7 if there is a temperature protection is registered.

    Additionally, J8 pin7 VIN3v3 is coming from TPS25751EVM and no drops.

    I have tried something today. I believe 1 cell operaiton is not be able to support OTG during PP3 was set for the PDO 1. I was tried to sense PPHV pinout fet drive circuitry VAC is always low. When I connect an sink device Vbus tries to ON then goes back to the OFF. Vbus Led just blinking interval nearly 1-2 seconds.

    If something inside the IC maybe the power sequence DRV_SUP or others could be damaged possibility, I will change the IC with the newer one. I will inform you.

    I dont think the buck boost driver was broken since the sinking with 20V/3a still working.

    There is a misunderstanding issue by the way. I'm watching the register with simultaneously with BQSTUDIO to find reason. TPS25751 always tries to ON output and somehow goes into hiccup, at that moment if I disconnect ribbon cable and EN_REV is enabled, the OTG mode activated somehow. Sometimes it tries maybe 10 times and gives the output.

    Is there any related issue with using 1 cell with nominal 3.2V? This Bq25756 is working 4.2V minimum. Maybe the VAC required or battery mode activation may not give permission to increase VAC or battery switching has an error using 1 cell.

  • Hello,

    Is there any related issue with using 1 cell with nominal 3.2V? This Bq25756 is working 4.2V minimum. Maybe the VAC required or battery mode activation may not give permission to increase VAC or battery switching has an error using 1 cell.

    I will defer to the BQ team, but I do not believe that the BQ EVM will support 1 cell.

    Regards,

    Chris

  •   do not forget I changed all required part to be able to work with 1 cell. It's working properly when I select PDO 1 source PP1 :)

  • Hello Ali,

    Thanks for working with this. I'm the expert for the BQ25756.

    Yes, the BQ25756 can support charging 1-cell batteries. I generally recommend using a lower power battery charger IC like the BQ25798, though.

    For DRV_SUP losing voltage, I haven't seen this happen before. Can you take a oscilloscope capture of DRV_SUP, SW1 and VAC? Do you see the same behavior if you power DRV_SUP from an external 5V gate drive supply?

    Best Regards,
    Ethan Galloway

  • BQ25798 Ic 5A. I need 15-20A using bigger cell. I updated since the CH1 was broken. Please look again.

    DRV_SUP doesnt losing there is a misuderstanding. Let me clerfy for you with the oscilloscope ss;

    CH1: VAC

    CH2: SW1

    CH3: DRV_SUP

    CH4: REGN

    1) When I selected PP1 source for PDO 1. Everthing is normal and working properly. 

    65W charger attached (20V/3A):

    5V source (Earpod box) source (5V/0.25A):

    Laptop USB port for source (20V/1.5A):

    2) I only make changes PP3:

    Here is the charging still working (20V/3A);

    When I connect to earpods or laptop, hiccup mode is seen

    During the hiccup mode, if I disconnect J8 ribbon cable, open the BQstudio, set EN_REV register output is goes into ON succesfully. At that moment no TPS25751 control.

  • Another detail from the oscilloscope may show us for some reason TPS25751 may not the activated PP3 source. It can be seen from the below SS.

    During connected j8 cable TPS25751 tries sequently and VAC= 1.5V. No trying to switching can be seen from blue signal.

    When I disconnect J8 cable VAC = 2.1V

    Set the EN_REV from BQStudio VAC goes to the 0V then 2 times try and switching is become ON and charging to load with 5V/250mA from VAC.

    We need to find the actual reason. TPS25751 goes into somehow protection or dont allowed give time to start switching. Maybe it's just a timing issue I dont know. 

  • Hello Ali,

    Thanks for the new information! Chris and I will get back to you tomorrow.

    Best Regards,
    Ethan Galloway

  • Hello,

    I will try on my side but if you could confirm the same that would be helpful:

    (1) when pp3 is set for PDO1 confirm the I2C messages which are sent to the BQ device (can you also record I2C traffic from your setup).

         (a) Firstly, just looking for proper configuration with an emphasis on the register write to address 0x19 and EN_REV.  

         (b) Based upon your findings with the BQ studio it would appear that the EN_REV is not being set, but I am concerned that even through BQ studio you have to write to the register multiple times before it 'sticks'. 

    (2) What version of the GUI are you using.  I will be using version 1.1.1.  If you are using an earlier version then please let me know.  FYI within the change log you can see what changes may be applicable to the BQ interface.

    Regards,
    Chris

  • Hello,

    I see in the previous post you are using 1.1.0.  I used the json file from that post with the same version (1.1.0) and I am not seeing the issue.

    I have highlighted when the power path transitions from the PP5V(PP1) to the BQ(PP3).  I do not have any load on VBUS.

    Regards,

    Chris

  • Hi Chris,


    Thank you for your support. I fixed the issue. Here is the problem and solution.

    I sniffed the TPS25751 and BQ25756 to check any error. Nothing is seen.

    Then I tried to read all register by one by from TPS25751 to see problem cause. Learned so many things until I reach the register 0x0021 :) 

    I realized that there was a protection registered at the TPS25751 and during the error state it gives these answers.
    Time    Byte2    Byte3    Comment
    12:03:58.514    02    20    Byte2 bit1 → Current Limit/Short Circuit active, Byte3 bit5 → Input Supply Error active
    12:04:13.184    82    00    Byte2 bit7 → Hiccup Mode Triggered active, bit1 → Current Limit/Short Circuit active
    12:04:16.693    82    00    Same events active again
    12:04:21.701    02    20    Current Limit and Input Supply Error active again

    I realized than my 5v supply is also increasing at the moment VAC start up. That's caused by the OVC PP5V. I limited the PP5V and filtered then problem was solved.

    Thank you for your patient and collabration. If someone read this task I highly recommend to check the register TPS25751 during any failure mode. I wish there was a SW for reading all register map easliy.