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UCC256301: Is this part intended to replace UCC25600 - recommendation for new designs

Part Number: UCC256301
Other Parts Discussed in Thread: UCC25600,

I need to design a cost-effective battery charger with an output capability of 11-15 volts at up to 40 amps (600W). This application uses an input of 105-130 volts ac and does not need PFC.

1. The UCC25630-4 looks like a good choice, although TI recommends it for 75 W to 500 W. I’ve looked at TIDA-01501 (700 W) which seems to stretch this a bit. What are the caveats and the cause of the power limit? Can it be scaled up for higher power (600 W to 1200 W) – maybe using gate driver ICs? (I would also like to consider a version that can provide 1 or 1.2 kW.) Which gate driver IC would you recommend for a higher power application?

2. Are there any app notes about the best way to implement microprocessor control of output voltage and current limit (using D/A outputs)? I would like to be able to drop the output voltage to a lower level to implement a battery charging profile, and possibly foldback current-limiting.

 Thanks,

Mike

  • UCC25600 is an active device and still adopted and used in new designs. There is no intention to replace UCC25600 with UCC25630x.

    TIDA-01501 power rating is 450W, not 700W. Please let me know where you see 700W for TIDA-01501.

    A rule-of-thumb is half-bridge LLC may be used in power rating up to 500W, so 600W seems a bit stretch but should be ok if design it carefully.

    Extend half-bridge LLC to over 1kW is with a bit challenge. MOSFET driving capability is one of the concerns as the design may need to have MOSFETs in parallel for power over 1kW. Besides, the half-bridge capacitors can get too big. A full bridge LLC can be considered to extend to power over 1kW. But you need to design to find out if acceptable in your case. So these are on rule-of-thumb and not a divide line.

    UCC25630x has an integrated half-bridge driver. If you use external driver to extend its driving capability, the integrated half-driver may become a waste.

    On how to make charging V-I profile, you may need to talk to TI battery charge technology team. So this is a different topic that needs to get that team's help. We can help to re-direct your questions to that team. Please let us know.

  • It looks like I misinterpreted the power output capability of TIDA-01501; in the document TIDUDH6A, which discusses TIDA-01501 design, it looks like the main output is 12 V at 37.5 A (450 W) but it also has two other outputs, rated 5 V at 30 A (150 W) and 3.3 V at 30 A (99 W) and that all adds up to 699 W but I see now those are not simultaneous, since the PFC and primary side was designed for 450 W.

    I was leaning toward a resonant-mode/LLC topology thinking it would provide better efficiency, lower EM noise, simplicity, small size, and lower cost. If a half bridge is too much of a stretch for 600 W output, can you suggest a suitable IC (and maybe a reference design) that would be a good match for this using a full bridge? This is a fairly high-volume, cost-sensitive (hence no PFC, at least for 600 W) application, and we’ll eventually need various power levels (e.g. 600 W, 1200 W, and possibly higher) so I want to investigate the most optimum design for each power level.

    My second question was regarding the circuit detail for using an MCU to set the output voltage, which might range from 0 to 15 volts, (depending on the output current and the programmed profile). I’m sure I can implement a D/A signal as a voltage reference for that, but if there’s a good established circuit topology worked out already that would be interesting to see. And would there be an issue with loop stability for the full range of output voltage, and from no load to full load current?

    And yes I am very interested in the charging-profile expertise that TI may be able to offer! In particular, I’d be interested in their recommendation for lead-acid and lithium-ion batteries, and if they know of a way to identify which type is present electronically based on its (voltage-current-time-temperature) load characteristics.

    Thanks for your help!
    Mike

  • As you mentioned no PFC in front, what is the input voltage range for this application?
  • 105 to 130 volts ac. A line filter, simple bridge rectifier, and electrolytic caps seems to be the low-cost approach. So for dc input, maybe 135 to 185 volts dc? I need to look into balancing the amount of input capacitance with its resulting ripple voltage and current.
  • The input voltage range looks ok but the output voltage range is very wide for an LLC converter. As you mentioned, the ouput voltage can reach 0 volt - I assume at this output voltage, you would like to have load current constant, right?
  • Actually in normal use I don't think the voltage would go below 6 volts. However, this is for a battery charger and it may encounter a dead or damaged battery, and it may encounter a short. So my thinking is to provide foldback current limiting. Actually full current (40 amps) could start around 8 volts I think. With a load pulling the voltage below that, the current can decrease; it would be useful for the current to be quite low (maybe a fraction of an amp) into a short (or less than 0.1 ohms). I'm not sure how well that kind of foldback current limiting would work with this type of circuit; I've only designed foldback limiters for linear regulators. But it would be cool if it could be made to work safely that way in this application.
  • Based on what has been discussed, my feeling is you are still in brain storm stage to make mind for this charging system. Based my experience on an LLC power converter and the devices mentioned here UCC25600 and UCC25630x, your charging system requires multi-modes operation, and not a simple LLC power converter can achieve. Considering the current status, I suggest you contact TI local sales so they can help to pull together expertise sources together to help work out a practical scheme proposal for you along with your experience and your system specifications, as my feeling is there is no simple answer or a quick solution can be quickly resolved on E2E forum.

    Where are you located? If you cannot make contact to your local TI office, we can help to get you connected.
  • Yes we are still determining the best topology and control IC. Would a simple fixed current limit be easier? What happens to TIDA-01501 when the load impedance is too low? Is it not feasible to implement a current limit or one that is controllable? I'm in Elkhart, IN.

    Thanks - Mike
  • First, an LLC power converter is difficult to run in wide output voltage variation.

    In regarding to if a simple fixed or controllable current limit ok, I think it depends on the V-I profile you want to have.

    In TIDA-01501, UCC256301 has three levels OCP (over current protection), as described in the datasheet, page 30. When the load impedance is too low, OCP will be triggered.

    I will forward this discussion to TI local so to get them connected.
  • Hi Mike,
    In order for TI local to contact you, please provide your customer account name then our local office will get contact to you.
  • Okay, thank you!
  • Can you provide an email address or phone number so I can contact them? I don't know if I have a "customer account name".
  • Okay so it looks like in the case of over current (and voltage will drop), UCC256301 will simply shut down.

    Can you recommend an efficient, low-cost topology that can provide constant voltage (12-15 V) when below 40 amps and then a limited or controllable output current while still functioning at a lower voltage when the load impedance is too low?

    Thanks!
  • TI local office will contact you to make help.

    On your questions, the challenge part is how to keep current not exceeding OCP threshold while meet the charging V-I profile when using a MCU to adjust ouptut voltage from 15V to zero.

    I think full system specifications need to be discussed first to help find a controller that can main functions including 12 to 15V regulation when < 40A and regulate the load current not to trigger OCP when > 40A.
  • Okay thank you! I think I see the problem now; it looks like a current-mode controller might be better, maybe something like the ON Semi NCP1399. I wonder if TI makes something like that. - Mike
  • We've reviewed our requirements and output below 12 volts does not need to be at full current. Even a very low current would be okay; what's needed is to automatically detect when the voltage can return to normal level (12 V to 14.4 V). So the OCP activation could be okay. Full output (40 A) is needed at 13.6 volts. At other voltages between 12 and 14.4 can be at lower current. So maybe this part is feasible for this application?

  • Our local sales will contact you and review the full specifications for this converter and charging V-I functions. I think the specs and charging V-I functions need to be settled down with a full picture before thinking about proper controller candidates.
  • Okay, thanks - I'm in contact with Dan Ringger at TI.
  • Hi Mike,

    We are aligned with our local office and will provide support to you through our local office with our other experts together.

    In this sense, I will close this E2E thread per the TI E2E regulation. If you have other questions and want to post on this thread, please do it within a day or so. If I do not receive any furhter post from you, I will close this thread by end of tomorrow.