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digital camera processor

Other Parts Discussed in Thread: TDA2P-ACD, AM5728, AM5718, AM5708

The application is high resolution (50MP ~ 100MP) digital camera,  the processor or processors should be able to capture the image sensor data and do image processing pipeline. 

Do you know which platform or processor can be the best fit for this application? 

I am not sure posting this to the right forum, if you found it in wrong place please advise. 

  • The factory team have been notified. They will respond here.
  • Elecir,
    Our apps expert on this topic is traveling and will be back in town next week. Sorry for the delay.
  • Thanks for looking into this. May I know is there any update on this? Thanks again.

  • Elecir,
    I am sorry for the delay...I have am escalating this one...
  • I need to know the capture pixel rate along with resolution and pixel size (RAW vs RGB vs YUYV 4:2:2 vs YUV  4:2:0 etc) to be able to comment on possible solutions. 

  • Rogerio,

    Thanks for looking into this. Can we have follow up in a private forum / email? I will able to share more detail. 

    BR,

     

  • Elcir,
    for the questions that Manisha needs your response, they are not confidential, please post here that it will be the right path. Thanks.
  • Manisha,
    Image sensor resolution can be 50Mp ~ 100MP, lets suppose 80MP for one case. Still camera application will have up to 3-5 capture per second, depends on the sensor type. We contemplate two types of sensor, I will share more detail. For video application, the target resolution is 2k, 30fps in YUV 4:2:2. We have video codec preference that I can share in detail. Thanks.
  • Hi Elecir,

    Assuming you are capturing the 80 MP image in RAW mode (8 bits per pixel), AM57x processor can meet your need. VIP port can be used to bring the 80MP @ 4-5 fps in 24-bit data bus width.  Please go through the FAQ section of this wiki page -

    For 16 bit 2K@30 fps, both  VIP and CSI-2 interface can meet your need. 

  • Manisha,
    Each pixel is 12 bit for image sensor, and for one type of image sensor we read RGB data for each pixel from image sensor. In this case, the frame rate will be: 120 *1e6 * 3 / (80e6 * 3*12/8) = 1fps. Is this correct?
    In case of 12bit, each pixel in RGB would be 36bit, how can this be handled in 8/16/24bit port modes?
  • Manisha,
    I want to add some more comments and questions:
    1- Please note that the sensor interface is MIPI or LVDS. This can be multiple parallel port to transfer that amount of sensor data to the processor. Your mentioned port is VIP and this will require to convert sensor MIPI interface to VIP. Is that correct? and any suggestion for the converter part?

    2- On your reply, you were focused on the data capture speed. How about the data processing speed? Will that type of processor (SoC) be able to run the image processing pipeline over 80MP of data (80MP x 3 x 12bit)? I mean standard image processing pipeline, e.g., AWB, noise filtering, face detection, ...

    3- How easy is the implementation of the ProRes 422 codec on this processor? Is it feasible?
  • Hi Manisha,
    Any update on the question I've asked on last two posts (May 3)? Thanks.
  • 12 bit data needs to be captured using 16 bit interface, so max you can capture is around 120-130 MPixels per sec using one VIP port.  For image size of 80 MP, this results in 1.5 fps. 

  • Elecir Design said:
    1- Please note that the sensor interface is MIPI or LVDS. This can be multiple parallel port to transfer that amount of sensor data to the processor. Your mentioned port is VIP and this will require to convert sensor MIPI interface to VIP. Is that correct? and any suggestion for the converter part?

    Yes, a bridge chip will be needed to convert MIPI/LVDS data to parallel data.

    Elecir Design said:
    2- On your reply, you were focused on the data capture speed. How about the data processing speed? Will that type of processor (SoC) be able to run the image processing pipeline over 80MP of data (80MP x 3 x 12bit)? I mean standard image processing pipeline, e.g., AWB, noise filtering, face detection, ...

    AM57x processor don't have hardware accelerated image pipeline. The image processing pipeline needs to be handled in software using DSP and GPU. I am not sure if DSP and GPU can handle the processing load of 80 MP resolution. There is no example software from TI to demonstrate the imaging pipeline using DSP or GPU.

    Elecir Design said:
    3- How easy is the implementation of the ProRes 422 codec on this processor? Is it feasible?

    You can program  ARM and DSP to implement ProRes 422 codec in software. Feasibility depends upon complexity of the codec, need resolution and framerate requirement. That's is something you will need to do analysis based on the dual core DSP and ARM MHz. You can seek support from TI third parties like Ittiam and PathPartner to port the codec on AM57x processor. 

  • Manisha: AM57x processor don't have hardware accelerated image pipeline. The image processing pipeline needs to be handled in software using DSP and GPU. I am not sure if DSP and GPU can handle the processing load of 80 MP resolution. There is no example software from TI to demonstrate the imaging pipeline using DSP or GPU.

    As addressed in the 1st post, the main purpose of this discussion is to come up with the possible solution from TI for our application. You introduced AM57x processor as a solution, but seemingly from your last post you are not sure that this processor can handle the processing load of 80 MP resolution. Is that correct? If so, then it is not a solution yet, how can we make sure based on your technical team experience?

    And another question is the possibility of using other processor family with hardware image processing core, e.g., OMAP? is there any processor or SoC to do the imaging pipeline in hardware for the resolution we need? Thanks.

  • Manisha,
    Any update on this post? Thanks.
  • Hi Elecir,

    Sorry, I overlooked the image processing pipeline when recommending part earlier. We don't have any Sitara class processor with hardware accelerated image pipe processing. Other customers have handled image processing on DSP and GPU for their need but I don't know if it can meet your processing need of 80 MP *5 fps. I don't know any OMAP part either that can handle 80 MP resolution.

    Just curious to know when using image pipeline for processing the image, would you also be looking software support for camera tuning?
  • TDA3x products from automotive business has processor with hardware accelerated ISP but these parts are not for broad market customers. The driver on these processor cannot handle out of box 80 MP resolution but can be modified to handle it (will need to work with TI third party to enable that)

  • > Just curious to know when using image pipeline for processing the image, would you also be looking software support for camera tuning?
    I am not sure what do you mean by software support for camera tuning, but if you are intending any real time image processing, the answer is yes. This can be done in lower resolution and doesn't need full resolution.


    > Other customers have handled image processing on DSP and GPU for their need..
    is there any implementation or benchmark showing the throughput with image processing algorithm running on AM57x? This might be more technical question, can you estimate the processing load without practical implementing them? I'm trying to find the answer for the question of AM57x capability on running image processing pipeline on 80MP data.
  • >TDA3x products from automotive business has processor with hardware accelerated ISP but these parts are not for broad market customers.
    Can you please pick me a part from table to dig more?
    and how does the ISP with automotive application differ from the standard camera application?
    I suppose the ADAS application ISP is much more focused on video data not high resolution still image, is that correct?
  • I meant to check for sensor tuning like AAA (auto exposure, auto focus..)

    If you can share exact processing you are needing as part of image processing, I can try to get some estimate for you.

  • standard image Processing pipeline like as:
    Defect Pixel Correction, Color Filter Array Interpolation, AAA Support, HDR, Tone mapping and Color Correction Matrix, Gamma Correction, Lens Distortion Correction, Noise reduction and face detection.

    storage can be SSD and as shared before, the video resolution is limited to 2k30fps.
  • DSP and GPU cannot handle all these processing for 2k@30 fps. TDA3x processor can handle this very well.
  • How does TDA3x processor capture 80MP image data? is it capable? does it have VIP port like AM57x?
  • Manisha,
    I browsed TDA2P-ACD datasheet and realized that the CAL has CSI2 port with 4 data lanes, 1.5Gbps on each lane. This means that CAL_B
    difficult to capture 80MP RGB data from sensor with 3-5fps. is that correct? TDA3x would be the same.
    If so, do you think that we are getting lost within different processor categories? As you know the main application is still image processing, you may ask this internally from your design excellence team which category is the best match for our application, afterward we can discuss on that certain family to find the best chip suits us. Thanks.

    p.s. I propose TIE2E to put a number for each post / reply to be referenced by later on posts/ replies.
  • Hi Elecir,

    TDA3x processor is only for automotive customers, so it won't help even if it meets your need, unless you are automotive customer. Unfortunately, currently we do not have any chip that can meet your need of 80 MP capture @ 5fps and/or do image processing at that resolution and frame rate (including 2k@30 fps) .

    Regards,
    Manisha
  • Hi Manisha,

    Thanks for your reply. Having say that there is no currently any part to meet our 80MP@5fps image processing pipeline and 2k30fps video, can you let us know what is the maximum resolution / capture rate that your chips can achieve? following cases can be in:
    1- Same 80MP resolution with lower capture rate
    2- Lower resolution with up to 5 capture per second.

    This can help us to review our requirements from marketing viewpoint. Thanks.
  • Manisha, Any comment on the last post above? Thanks.
  • Hi Elicir,

    As I mentioned in my previous post, closest device is AM57x. It can handle 2k@60 fps processing for capture (multiple inputs as well 80 MP resolution in RAW mode), H.264 video compression/decompression, other video processing like scaling, de-interlacing and display (multiple outputs). But it doesn't have hardware accelerator to do image pipe processing. It can only be done using DSP, ARM and GPU. I do not have good answer on how many frames of image pipe processing can be handled in software. If you reach out to some good third parties (like Ittiam Systems, Path Partner, D3), they can help you with performance evaluation of image pipe using software on AM5728 device which has 2xA15, 2xC66x DSP and 2xSGX544.

    Regards,
    Manisha
  • Thanks for your reply.

    Your last post says:
    It (AM57x) can handle 2k@60 fps processing for capture ...

    Your post @ May 9, 2018 10:58 PM says:
    DSP and GPU cannot handle all these processing for 2k@30 fps.

    Which one is correct?
  • Elecir Design said:
    It (AM57x) can handle 2k@60 fps processing for capture ...

    This one is in context for capture alone. 

    Elecir Design said:
    DSP and GPU cannot handle all these processing for 2k@30 fps.

    This one is in context to image processing pipeline that you mentioned earlier - Defect Pixel Correction, Color Filter Array Interpolation, AAA Support, HDR, Tone mapping and Color Correction Matrix, Gamma Correction, Lens Distortion Correction, Noise reduction and face detection. You can consult TI third parties to check if they have performance optimized solution that can enable these processing for 2k@30fps on AM5728/AM5718/AM5708 device. 

  • Thanks for clarification. How can I send on all the post of this forum to an email, or download as a file?
  • Elecir, you can send the URL to an email or take screen shots.