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AWR1642BOOST: AWR1642BOOST: mmwave Studio 2.1.1.0 ::: 1) Minimum number of ADC Samples . 2) Setting the bandwidth of Tx signal

Alper Fatih
Expert 1040 points
Part Number: AWR1642BOOST
Other Parts Discussed in Thread: AWR1642

Hi

1)   I am learning TI mmwave sensors using AWR1642BOOST (ES2.0) + DCA1000 EVM with a Windows 10 laptop and mmwave Studio 02.01.01.00. I am collecting 2x complex data from the ADC. 

I refer "numAdcSamples" variable at location file:///C:/ti/mmwave_sdk_03_03_00_03/packages/ti/control/mmwavelink/docs/doxygen/html/structrl_profile_cfg__t.html

It states that :    Valid range: 2 to MAX_NUM_SAMPLES

However, in mmwave Studio tab " SensorConfig" , I found that I cannot set number of ADC samples less than 64. Please advise how can I set the number of ADC samples less than 64 in mmwave Studio 2.1.1.0. I particular, I wish to set the number of ADC samples to 8 or 4 or 2. 

I have been advised earlier by TI team that earlier there was a limitation that ADC samples could not be set less than 64 in mmwave Studio, however, this limitation has been removed in mmwave Studio 2.1.1.0 and now ADC samples could be set as low as 2 in mmwave Studio 2.1.1.0. ( https://e2e.ti.com/support/sensors/f/1023/t/912349    message dated 22 June, 2020)

However, I found that even mmwave studio 2.1.1.0 , I cannot set ADC samples (in SensorConfig tab) less than 64. This is the same limitation that we had in mmwave Studio 2.0.0.2.

Please advise how can I set number of ADC samples as low as 2 (or 4 or 8) in mmwave studio 2.1.1.0 ?

2) I wish to set the start the Tx frequency as 77 GHz and I wish to experiment with very short bandwidth, say 90 MHz or even less. Please advise how can I set this bandwidth (90 MHz or even lower) in mmwave Studio 2.1.1.0 ? Should I set it in tab " StaticConfig " of mmwave Studio 2.1.1.0 ? Or is there some other way to set the bandwidth of Tx signal ?

Please also advise that is there any lower limit of bandwidth that could be set for Tx signal ? If yes, then please advise TI document(s) stating that limit for the AWR1642 device, for TI Demo Visualizer and for mmwave Studio 2.1.1.0.

Thanks and regards

  • 0
    Expert 1040 points

    Hi TI Team,

    I understand that Covid-19 is adversely affecting everything.

    However, it has been 9 days and I have not received a response from TI on my above request.

    So far, the response of TI has been quite prompt and satisfactory.

    The above question is quite important for me, and I am sure that TI accords importance to every question posed to it.

    I request you to please arrange response to my above query.

    Thanks and regards

  • 0 in reply to Alper Fatih
    TI__Mastermind 24955 points

    Alper,

    This a function of the mmWave Studio software. The software has internal checks on the allowed values.

    For example, the number of ADC samples in the Profile section of the "SensorConfig" tab has a range of 64 to 4096.

    At this point, there is no way around this limitation. If I try to type any number lower than 64 in the box, when I move the cursor to another tab, the number immediately jumps up to 64. This limitation is still effective in mmWave Studio v2.1.1. I verified this behavior this morning.

    Regarding the bandwidth, this is defined by the frequency slope of the chirp multiplied by the ramp end time. Please take these two factors into consideration when designed your chirp.

    Regards,
    Kyle

  • 0 in reply to Kyle Cousino
    Expert 1040 points

    Hi Kyle,

    Thank you for your response.

    I just want to re-confirm, although you have stated it earlier :

    Earlier, TI Official Cesar (in his 22 June, 2020 message) advised that the limitation of setting minimum ADC samples to 64 was removed in mmwave Studio 2.1.1.0. He referred TI mmwave Studio team in his reply.

    However, in you reply of 10th July, 2020, you are advising that the limitation of minimum 64 ADC samples still exists in mmwave Studio 2.1.1.0 as well, like in previous mmwave Studio versions.

    I feel a bit concerned that it is less likely that there was an inadvertent miscommunication between Cesar and TI mmwave Studio team. On the other hand, I know and you have also personally checked that the minimum number of ADC samples that could be set in mmwave Studio 2.1.1.0 is 64.

    Can I request you to please once again contact TI mmwave Studio team and seek their comments, as earlier, they said that the limitation of minimum 64 ADC samples had been removed in mmwave Studio 2.1.1.0 and , as per them, the minimum number of ADC samples could be set as low as 2 in mmwave Studio 2.1.10.

    I realize that this might be a bit of nuisance for you, possibly, however, it is quite critical for me, therefore I am requesting a re-visit to this issue.

    Best regards

  • 0 in reply to Alper Fatih
    TI__Mastermind 24955 points

    Alper,

    With regards to your question about the minimum number of ADC samples, here is the relevant informaiton:

    • BSS firmware supports a minimum number of ADC samples of 2
    • mmWave Studio supports a minimum number of ADC samples of 64

    So if you are using mmWave Studio, you will need to use at least 64 ADC samples per chirp. This is a limitation imposed by the software, not the firmware.

    Regards,
    Kyle

  • 0 in reply to Kyle Cousino
    Expert 1040 points

    Hi Kyle, 

    Thank you very much for your valuable reply, this is really important that you told me this.

    I am not closing this thread because I have hopefully, just a last query in this connection.

    Moreover, I am posting in both threads because they are almost same and the I wish the info to be available on both threads for subsequnet readers. I will cloase the both threads together.

    You advised above that :  

    Quote

    BSS firmware supports a minimum number of ADC samples of 2.

    UNQUOTE

    Well I may be asking a very basic question, but I still ask and I request you to please extend guidance on that : Can you please advise and guide me ( may be at a broad level), that how can I use BSS to set number of ADC samples as 2 ?

    I have following replies, please confirm about each of them individually that is it right or not, and if not right, then what is right ?

    1-  As I cannot use less than 64 ADC samples in mmwave Studio, then can I use mmwave Demo Visualizer for this purpose ? I understand that I cannot set number of ADC samples as 2 in mmwave Demo Visualizer ? Am I right ?

    2-  I understand that I cannot (easily) modify the code of demo visualizer to set the number of ADC samples as 2. Am I right ?

    3-  I understand that for using the BSS and to for setting ADC samples as 2, I need to use CCS ? I understand that I will probably need to make a CCS project and upload that into AWR1642 BOOST EVM. Am I right ?

    If yes, then can you please extend some guidance on that? Can you refer one or more particular Lab(s) in this regard that will help me in modifying the ADC samples in BSS and setting them as 2, 4 or 8 etc  ?

    Regards

  • 0 in reply to Alper Fatih
    TI__Mastermind 24955 points

    Alper,

    Here are a few things to keep in mind with regards to using a small number of ADC samples per chirp.

    You will greatly limit your range resolution by using a small number of ADC samples per chirp. By only having 2 ADC samples per chirp, you will be limiting yourself to only two range bins for the entire range of your chirp. This could lead to multiple objects residing within the same range bin.

    That being said, you can certainly modify the chirp configuration file (*.cfg) and modify the profile configuration CLI command to decrease the number of ADC samples down to 2.

    You do not need to modify the Out-of-Box demo code in order to set the number of ADC samples to 2. So, no you would not need to make a CCS project and flash that project to the AWR1642BOOST.

    However, do not be surprised if you do not see many output point cloud data, if any, given the fact that you have reduced the number of total range bins to 2. This will not be changed by increasing the number of chirps per frame.

    Regards,
    Kyle

  • 0 in reply to Kyle Cousino
    Expert 1040 points

    Hi Kyle,

    Thank you for your elaborate reply and for your indication towards the relation between number of ADC samples and range resolution.

    In fact, I may not use 2 ADC samples, but I am trying to establish a basic understanding of the FMCW radar principles, while considerign minimum or very less ADC samples.

    I have been so far using raw ADC data through DCA1000 EVM and using my own offline post-processing algorithm on that data.

    I have not (much) used the Out-of-Box demo. I fear that I will have  difficulty in using that, probably especially with respect to refresh rate. But that would be another issue if I try to use Out-of-Box demo in live mode.

    I rather intend to collect the raw ADC data by using CLI / Out-of-Box demo and use that raw ADC data it with my own algorithm. However, I fear that I will be troubled by the maximum data / buffer size for ADC data in that case. I have not faced that difficulty while using mmwave Studio + DCA1000 EVM as there I can collect significant amount of data.

    I strongly suggest and recommend to TI to please soon remove the limitation of minimum 64 ADC samples in mmwave Studio so that one can set minimum number of ADC samples ( 2 as stated in SDK for CLI and / or in Radar Interface Document).

    This will facilitate the user to have same functionality by using both the CLI / Out-of-Box Demo and mmwave Studio.

    Thanks and regards