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Cannot power SmartRF06EB with battery

Richard Steckler
Prodigy 170 points
Other Parts Discussed in Thread: TPS63031, CC1310

I am using the SimpleLing 1310 Evaluation module kit.  I am able to power the RF06EB with the usb connection however I am unable to power up using AAA or coin cell battery.  I am using only AAA or coin cell and have the power source selected set to battery.  The power LED does not come on.  

Both boards behave this way.  Is there something further I need to set on the board?

  • 0
    Guru 31280 points
    Any chance the batteries are not fresh?
  • 0 in reply to Igor Sherer
    TI__Mastermind 18780 points

    Have you chosen batteries as your power source (switch just below the power switch)? When battery powered, the EM power domain is by default regulated to 2.1 V. The voltage regulator may be bypassed by mounting a jumper on J502. Have you measured the voltage on the VDD TO EM pins to see if it corresponds to your set-up? Have you tried using the external DC input (next to the LCD display) to see whether this works?

  • 0
    Guru 735475 points

    it is most possible that you don't mount a jumper on J502.

  • 0 in reply to YiKai Chen
    Prodigy 170 points
    Got fresh batteries, measured 1.62V. Power source set to BAT, Regulator bypass jumper installed, power switch set to ON; still will not power up. Measured .93V across VVD to EM jumper. Measured .54 across VVD to EM jumper when Regulator Bypass jumper removed.
  • 0 in reply to Richard Steckler
    Guru 735475 points
    Can you attach a picture of your SmartRF06EB with CC1310EM?
  • 0 in reply to Richard Steckler
    TI__Genius 13620 points

    Richard,

    When you select battery as the power option, it is expected that the green "XDS power" LED is not turned on. It is only on when you have connected a USB connector to the board.

  • 0 in reply to M
    Prodigy 170 points

    No Green LED.  That makes sense the on battery.  Will the LCD be enabled?

    Picture of RF06EB with 1310EM:

  • 0 in reply to Richard Steckler
    TI__Genius 13620 points

    Yes, you will be able to operate the LCD even though you only power the board using batteries (there's a buck/boost converter and level shifters on the board exactly for that purpose).

  • 0 in reply to M
    Prodigy 170 points
    Still not functioning. Is there a way to determine if the boards are defective?
  • 0 in reply to Richard Steckler
    Guru 31280 points
    Hi,

    Could you measure the voltage on "VDD to EVM" header, while the smartrf06EB is powered.
  • 0 in reply to Igor Sherer
    Prodigy 170 points

    Voltage measured across VDD to EM Header:

    .616 volts on battery w/o regulator bypass jumper

    .646 volts on battery with regulator bypass jumper

  • 0 in reply to Richard Steckler
    Guru 31280 points
    Hi,

    Seems like the buck/boost in your board is not working.
    Make additional 3 voltage measurements, on Vbat, TP17 and TP18 signals.

    Another thing, do you have a second smartRF06EB for reference?
  • 0 in reply to Richard Steckler
    Prodigy 170 points
    Removed batteries and powered rf06 with 3V DC power supply. Voltages measured across VDD to EM header:

    .616 volts w/o regulator bypass jumper
    .701 volts with regulator bypass jumper

    Removed 3V DC power supply.
    Powered f06 with USB. Voltages measured across VDD to EM header:
    1.645 Volts w/o regulator bypass.
  • 0 in reply to Richard Steckler
    Prodigy 170 points
    I have two smartRF06 Evaluation Boards. They both have the following measurements on battery:

    vbat: 1.07V
    TP17: 2.11
    TP18: .02
  • 0 in reply to Richard Steckler
    Guru 31280 points

    According to smartRF06EB schematic (page 38), Vbat is a test point that is connected to a positive end of a two in series AAA batteries, or a single coin cell (CR2032). In both cases the voltage you should be measuring is ~3V (with fresh batteries in use).
    Something smells fishy here.

    By the way, in my case I'm measuring:
    Vbat: 3.1V
    TP17: 2.09V
    TP18: 3.3V

  • 0 in reply to Igor Sherer
    Prodigy 170 points

    I installed a fresh CR2032 which measured 3V.  From the +ve terminal of the coin cell case on the RF06 to the ground pad also measured 3V.

    Vbat still shows ~1V.  This is pin 2 on the off/on switch which I have as the center pin on the top.  I am measuring the DC voltage from pin 2 to ground.

    Source is BAT, Regulator bypass jumper removed.  (installed, the Vbat is ~1.4V).  1 CR2032,  AAA batteries removed. USB cable removed, no DC power.

    I agree,  From the schematic, Vbat should be connected directly to the positive terminal of the battery.

    Fishy is right.  Could it be the off/on switch?

    Rick

  • 0 in reply to Richard Steckler
    Guru 31280 points

    Well,

    could you make one more measurement, on D3 pads, I've marked it with a red arrow on attached image. Pardon me for my superb drawing skills.

    By the way, saw it after attaching this image, the name of the figure says Revision 1.2.1, while the sticker on the image itself says Rev 1.2.0 :)

  • 0 in reply to Igor Sherer
    Prodigy 170 points
    The measurements are 2.998V (battery side) and 2.773V on the D3 Pads. My board rev is 1.2.2.

    Rick
  • 0 in reply to Richard Steckler
    Guru 31280 points

    So, to sum things up:

    1. You have a 2.773V on the Vbat net (which is acceptable)
    2. On the other hand, the voltage on P501 Pin2 is 1.07 (Which is odd)
    3. The voltage on TP17 is 2.11V (which is ok)
    4. The voltage on TP18  is ~0V (Which may be ok in case the 3.3V domain is disabled, but completely wrong if it isn't)
    5. When the evaluation board is powered from USB cable, the whole thing is working, including LEDs and LCD

    It seems like something is wrong with the 3.3V boost/buck (U502 - TPS63031).

    Is there a chance you have a 3V power supply with regulated current limiter?
    If so, connect it to external power connector, set the power source switch to battery with regulator bypass jumper.

    What are the voltages now (TP17 and TP18)?

  • 0 in reply to Igor Sherer
    Prodigy 170 points
    Yes - attached 3V power supply to external power connector and put in jumper on regulator bypass.
    TP17 was 3.27V
    TP18 was basically 0.0V

    Rick
  • 0 in reply to Richard Steckler
    Guru 31280 points
    Consider replacing the smartRF06EB
  • 0 in reply to Igor Sherer
    TI__Genius 13620 points
    TP18 will be low if the control signal "LV_3.3V_EN" is low. This control signal is controlled from the EM (CC26xx/CC13xx), and there's a pull-down on the signal. What happens if you force the LV_3.3V_EN" signal high? It's on the break-out header (P407 - pin 1-2).
  • 0 in reply to M
    Prodigy 170 points

    If I force LV_3.3V_EN high,  I get 3.29V at TP18.   This is good.  

    The LCD still does not come on however.  

  • 0 in reply to Richard Steckler
    TI__Genius 13620 points

    The LCD is also controlled by the device on the plug-in EM board, so if you don't have anything running on that chip, the LCD won't turn on.

    What kind of EM do you have?

  • 0 in reply to M
    Prodigy 170 points
    CC13xxEM. The RF test runs if I power via USB.
  • 0 in reply to Richard Steckler
    TI__Genius 13620 points
    Well, if you try to run the link test on the CC13xx on the EB just with a coin cell, things may not work well unless you have a brand new coin cell. The test doesn't really care that much about power modes and it turns on several features on the 06EB boards that consumes a lot of power. The coin cell will quickly be drained and the output voltage will drop to a level where the CC13xx won't be able to run (the protection diode on the backside of the board doesn't help the situation, as you will lose approx. 0.3V - the diode was added as a safety measure against recharging) . You should only use a coin cell on the 06EB when you're running a truly low power app on the device.

    Everything should work fine with AAA batteries, though.

    BTW - the ~1V you measure on the middle pin on the on/off switch may be the floating voltage on the VBUS net (when no USB cable is connected). The pin between the on/off labels is pin number 5 (and not pin 2)
  • 0 in reply to M
    Prodigy 170 points

    Yes - the coin cell is not adequate.

    With a 3V DC power supply or two fresh AAA batteries (3.2 volts measured) the link test still does not run.  Even with LV_3.3V_EN forced high and TP18 showing 3.2V.  The link test does run if I power over usb.  

    Anything else I could try??

  • 0 in reply to Richard Steckler
    TI__Genius 13620 points
    I'm starting to run out of ideas. Did you say that both of the boards you have behave like this? Have you tried to measure how much current you draw from the battery/external supply? There might be a short circuit or similar on the board.

    Have you asked TI for a replacement kit?
  • 0 in reply to M
    Prodigy 170 points
    Both boards are the same. I measured 1mA - 7mA with LV_3.3V_EN high.

    I think I'll ask TI for a replacement kit.
  • 0 in reply to Richard Steckler
    Prodigy 170 points

    Have received two replacement RF06EB boards from TI.  They both operate properly when powered by battery.

  • 0 in reply to Richard Steckler
    Intellectual 875 points
    Hi, Richard.

    I have followed all this thread because I have the same exact problem you had with the same kit. I did all tests and measurements you did and I got same results. So I also asked for boards replacement and TI sent me a new kit.

    My problem now is that the replacement boards have the same problem and still do not work in battery mode.

    The first thing I notice is that the SmartRF06EB version board is PCB v1.2 in all boards (new ones and old ones). Did you received another PCB version?

    Before I contact TI again, I did something I have not done because I did not read about it anywhere, not in the forums nor in the SmartRF06EB user manual. As I read in the user manual, the XDS100v3 Emulator only works when the board is powered by USB, while in battery mode this module is not functional. So I thought that if it is not operational, it does not hurt to disable it manually removing the bypass header P408 jumpers.

    And voila, now the boards work perfectly battery powered (not needing even to mount a jumper on J502 to bypass EM domain voltage regulator). I suppose there is a problem of power drain about batteries and XDS100v3 Emulator.

    This "trick" works for me, but I really would like to know if this "malfunction" is a real problem of the boards that should work with batteries without removing the P408 jumpers or, in the other way, this is the right functionality of the board and it is simply a errata from the user manual not to explain that the P408 jumpers should be removed to operate in battery mode.

    Any TI employee or community members could confirm?

    Are there higher PCB version boards over the PCB v1.2?

    Do any of you have PCB v1.2 working in battery mode with the P408 jumpers on?

    Thank you!
  • 0 in reply to Juan Pablo Novo
    TI__Guru**** 317180 points
    I have SmartRF06 rev 1.2 which is the latest revision and I test it with the jumper placement shown in figure 5 in www.ti.com/.../swru321b.pdf. I program it having the source switch to USB and after I have flashed the device I switch over to the Bat position and the LED is still blinking the same way as it did in the USB position (rfPacketTx example)

    5.3.1 in the SmartRF06 userguide state that the XDS domain is powered directly from the USB (5 V) so this part will not be powered from battery.

    Which issues are you seeing with the bat setting?
  • 0 in reply to TER
    Intellectual 875 points

    The problem I found is running the out of the box RF test firmware of the CC1310EMK (cc1310emk_range_test_kit_2_0_3_PG2.hex)

    With the original configuration of jumpers (the figure 5 of the user manual as you said and S502 in USB position) I have no problem using USB power source and running the RF test.

    But in battery mode (with the same jumper configuration, only switching the S502 to BAT position) the LCD does not work so I can not make the RF test mobile.

    I know the XDS domain is only powered in USB and I know that the XDS leds are off in battery mode. That is the reason I tried removing the bypass header P408 jumpers. If this module does not work in battery mode it does not hurt to manually disable the XDS100v3 Emulator. Does it? And in this configuration of jumpers the LCD works and I can make the RF test while battery powered.

    I have tried 4 Smart06EB and all of them have the same issue.

    So I would like to know if the rest of you can run the RF test in battery mode without manually disable the XDS100v3 Emulator (P408)

    It is disturbing to me, as the user manual says nothing about it. Indeed, in the FAQ section it says:

    "

    Question: Nothing happens when I power up the evaluation board. Why?

    Answer: Make sure that a power source is connected to the EB. Verify that the power source selection

    switch (S502) is set correctly according to your power source. When powering the EB from either batteries

    or an external power source, S502 should be in the “BAT” position. When powering the EB over USB, the

    switch should be in the “USB” position. Also, make sure the EVM current measurement jumper (J503) is

    short circuited.

    "

    No mention about disabling XDS removing P408.

    And I thought Richard was suffering the same issue. He wrote that a couple of new boards worked for him, but It did not for me. That is why I was thinking about different PCB versions.

  • 0 in reply to Juan Pablo Novo
    TI__Guru**** 317180 points

    I did a test where I flashed my board with cc1310emk_range_test_kit_2_0_3_PG2.hex and it works for me:

  • 0 in reply to TER
    Intellectual 875 points

    I have attached 3 photos:

    SmartRF06EB - USB - P408 enabled: Working

    SmartRF06EB - BAT - P408 enabled: Not working

    SmartRF06EB - BAT - P408 disabled: Working

    So I continue thinking there is something wrong with the boards, and I must assume I have bad luck. 2 boards in the first kit and 2 more in the replacement kit TI sent me, and all with the same problem!

    Now I am sure Richard had the same problem with the 2 first ones but better luck, because the 2 new replacement boards came without the issue.

    Nobody else had the same problem in all this time???

    I suppose I could work removing/placing the P408 jumpers when I switch between USB and BAT modes, but I am afraid there can be something more hidden than can produce unexpected results when flashing or testing or whenever.

    In other words, if I get difficult/estrange errors or problems in the future with my programs, I will be always thinking if they could be caused by a board malfunction.

    I really would like a pair of complete functional boards that work as intended from the beginning...

    SmartRF06EB - USB - P408 enabled

    SmartRF06EB - BAT - P408 enabled

    SmartRF06EB - BAT - P408 disabled

  • 0 in reply to Juan Pablo Novo
    Guru 735475 points
    Try to mount a jumper on "Regulator Bypass".
  • 0 in reply to YiKai Chen
    Intellectual 875 points
    I did it, but it does not work.
  • 0 in reply to Juan Pablo Novo
    TI__Guru**** 317180 points
    Under the board you will find a white sticker, which exact revision does this say?
  • 0 in reply to TER
    Intellectual 875 points
    The 4 boards are revision 1.2.2

    Serial numbers: 0x10811, 0x10833, 0x10B1F and 0x10DD1

    Is yours a different revision?
  • 0 in reply to Juan Pablo Novo
    TI__Guru**** 317180 points
    I have the same revision of the board.

    If you leave the jumpers on on P408 but remove the jumpers to P403, P404, P405 does that change anything?
  • 0 in reply to TER
    Intellectual 875 points
    If I remove P403 or P404, the board does not work with or without jumpers on P408

    With jumpers on P403 and P404 but not in P405, the board only works without jumpers on P408
  • 0 in reply to Juan Pablo Novo
    TI__Guru**** 317180 points
    I did a quick test on 5 different SmartRF06 boards lying around here and all works on battery.

    The reason I asked about the other jumpers was to see if something (for some odd reason) create a short etc.

    With the jumpers in place on P403-405, what is the power consumption drawn from the battery with and without P408 in place?
  • 0 in reply to TER
    Intellectual 875 points
    Vbat with main switch OFF: 3.18V
    Pbat without P408 mounted: 3.07V x 8.9mA = 27mW
    Pbat with P408 mounted: 3.16V x 0.4mA = 1.26mW

    I have been doing some more research in E2E forums and I have found at least 4 more people with boards having the same problem:
    e2e.ti.com/.../472747
    e2e.ti.com/.../1786892

    I know you are aware of them, but at least this shows I am not alone and there is a real problem with some boards.

    I think I could ask for new replacements but what I am afraid of is that It can be a never ending story if I continue having bad luck and receiving not tested faulty boards. I have bought them from Mouser so I do not know if they will be able to test them until they find 2 non faulty ones and then send them to me.
  • 0 in reply to Juan Pablo Novo
    TI__Guru**** 317180 points
    Thank you for extensive testing.

    I will forward this to the tools/ kit group.

    If I have understood your findings correctly: You are able to operate the SmartRF06 board on battery if you remove P408? Is it something on your board that doesn't work?
  • 0 in reply to TER
    Intellectual 875 points
    Yes, that's right. If I remove the P408 it seems to work Ok, and the boards seem to work Ok apart from that.

    But I say "seem" because I am not totally confident. For example, I have been doing some RF tests in battery mode and I got weak level signals compared with the USB tests I did it before. The first thing it came to my mind was that it was another problem with the boards while battery powered. So I changed to USB power source and tested again getting same bad results. Then I changed one of the antenna (I mixed the four antennas from the two kits) and the power level of the receiving signal was good again. I tested in battery mode and worked perfect. It was a problem with one of the four antennas I have in this moment, but the first thing I thought it was about the board problem and if I had no other antenna available I would be sure about it and I would be wrong...

    What I mean is that I have to learn a lot about the kit and having doubts about the boards functionality does not help at all.

    Thank you very much for your help.
  • 0 in reply to Juan Pablo Novo
    TI__Genius 12900 points
    Juan,

    Can you test which of the P408 jumper position that makes your board stop working by taking a single jumper and move it across each jumper position (P408.1-2, 3-4, ...) and see when your application stops working?

    TIABO
  • 0 in reply to Juan Pablo Novo
    TI__Guru**** 317180 points
    We have had some issues with the antennas delivered with the kit. Some of them has poor quality (not sure about the reason) and it could be the antenna you tested with was actually broken (literary since we have seen a couple of antennas where the inside has been in two parts).

    So in your case the poor RSSI level could have been a bad antenna.
  • 0 in reply to TIABO
    Intellectual 875 points

    There is only a jumper that when it is mounted the board stops working in battery mode: P408.9-10

    The board works while battery powered with that jumper removed and every other jumper in P408 mounted (see attached image)

  • 0 in reply to TER
    Intellectual 875 points
    Yes, I am completely sure that this last issue is an antenna problem. What I mean is that it may be extremely difficult to get the right answer to a problem with a board you don't trust.
  • 0 in reply to Juan Pablo Novo
    TI__Guru**** 317180 points
    Thank you for the detailed testing. We need to do testing here to understand more about what is going on.