TL082: Question about TL082IDR

The PCN describes a new die version. There are many changes (see the changes in revision N of the datasheet); as far as I can see, it's the same as the TL082H.

I do not know what you are referring to with "flow fluctuation". Please show the schematic.

Hi Clemens：

Customer uses TL082，not TL082H.

The project is a flow meter that measures the speed of water flow in millimeters per second. It has been in mass production for 7-8 years and is very stable. The surrounding materials have not changed, and only the TL082IDR was replaced, which caused the above problem. The customer can only distinguish it from the product function and cannot analyze it from the specific SPEC of the chip

The customer has switched back to the original batch, 21+, 22+, 2304, and the abnormal phenomenon has disappeared

Could you please confirm:

1. Is there any process change inside the chip that leads to a change in spec for the new batch?

2. The silk screen style of the new batch of TL082 is very similar to TL082H, and customer testing has found that the functionality is also similar to TL082H. May I ask if the Die inside is the Die of TL082H?

3. Which batch did the internal structural changes start from?

thank you!!!

Hi Jimmy, 

To add on to Clemens' comments, in the PCN of the TL082, there is a section on page 3 listing the effective change types that will be impacted. This is including design and wafer fab process. The changes in behavior is expected but please provide a schematic and use conditions so we can evaluate further. 

Regards,
Ashley

Hi Clemens & Ashley：

”The guaranteed datasheet limits have not changed“

1、According to the data sheet of TL082 on TI's official website, in Chapter 10 "10 Revision History", it is mentioned that the data sheet has changed from 2021 version M to 2024 version N. Please provide the data sheet of 2021 version M.

2、Currently, the customer is using 2345 batches of TL082. Which version of the data sheet should it correspond to? 2024 version? Or 2021 version?

“both fab sites might run in parallel for some time, but production at SHE will cease, and eventually you will get only new dies from RFB.”

1、For SHE's TL082IDR，Does SHE's TL082IDR still use the old die and old process?

2、For products with two different processes, are they mixed together when TI ships them?

3、How do we distinguish between the same model products with two different processes?

Thanks！！！

1. http://class.ece.iastate.edu/ee435/labs/tl082.pdf

2. Apparently, your 2345 devices have the new die.

1. SHE produces old dies; RFB produces new dies.

2. Maybe.

3. The fab is printed on the shipping label.

Hi Jimmy, 

Jimmy Huang said:

2、For products with two different processes, are they mixed together when TI ships them?

Each TI reel will be have one process / fab site as indicated by the TI reel label. They will not be mixed within the reel. This is how you can distinguish between the pre and post-PCN material. 

Please refer to the product identification information within the PCN letter that explains the how to identify between the two different materials: 

As asked previously, please provide the customer usage conditions and describe further what specific issue are they having with the TL082 device. We would like to help troubleshoot specifically on the application. 

Regards,
Ashley

Hi Clemens & Ashley:

Thank you for your reply, I am communicating with customer about application issue.

But customer has compared RevM datasheet of 2021 and RevN datasheet of 2024 and expressed the following issues：

For the RevM datasheet of 2021, the performance charts of TL08xH are clearly listed in 6.16, especially the input voltage noise density of Figure 6-18 on Page 20, and the performance charts of All Other Devices are clearly listed in 6.17, especially the input voltage noise density of Figure 6-56 on Page 27;

The performance of TL08xH and other TL08x products is very different. Compared with the latest data sheet 2024 RevN version, the performance charts of TL08xH are clearly listed in 5.10, especially the input voltage noise density of Figure 5-18 on Page 19, which is consistent with the 2021 datasheet, but all the performance charts of All Other Devices have been deleted in the 2024 datasheet.

For the product TL082IDR ordered by the customer, it is the corresponding chart of all other devices. This is not that the spec has not changed, but the performance indicator chart of TL082IDR has been directly deleted. For this reason, does it mean that the subsequent new Die can no longer reach the performance chart of All Other Devices in the 2021 datasheet?

The reason why the customer's current product cannot meet the indicators is because of the input power supply noise indicator problem.

The graphs for the old die have been removed from the datasheet because in the future, you will only get chips with the new die.

If the circuit depends on the input noise voltage, then change to an alternate device (e.g., TL082-N, TLV9352, or OPA2182).

Hi Jimmy, 

In general, the TL08xH is an improved version of the TL08x device except for noise performance. As the H version is a newer generation part, it is expected that you will see difference in performance and behavior.

We have modified the datasheet to better reflect what customers should expect to see encompassing both versions of the devices and eventually only the new die. Better noise curves is not included as some devices (new die) may not meet that typical performance. 

How is the customer dependent on the noise spec? Please provide more application information and we can help to provide an alternative part or troubleshoot further. 

Regards,
Ashley

Hi Ashley:

I explain about this case.

1. The customer's current mass-produced flow meter products use TI's TL082, and the solution is very stable and has been in mass production for nearly 7 or 8 years.
2. The customer had previously considered iterating TL082 to TL082H, but the test results showed that the performance and behavior of TL082H did not meet the customer's application solution, including: some performance indicators such as input power supply noise, which are different from TL082, resulting in a very large loss of product accuracy compared to the previous TL082. Therefore, TL082H is not considered.
3. The customer recently used the latest batch of TL082 to patch on the production line and found that the abnormal phenomenon was exactly the same as when testing TL082H before. Therefore, it is suspected that the performance and behavior of the latest batch of TL082 are close to TL082H and use the same Die. Through retrospection, I learned that the old Die, the classic TL082, was used before.
4. I am communicating with the customer about the specific details of the application. Because the abnormality occurred during the mass production stage, rather than during the product testing and R&D stage, the production line was stopped, and it was difficult to troubleshoot the application in a short period of time.

Thanks!!!

Hi Jimmy, 

Thank you for the additional information and background on this issue. I understand this is difficult to troubleshoot for the customer given a production line stop, but please help us provide the schematic information so we can better understand what may be happening to the op amp. We can then help think of a solution for the customer. If it is easier, the customer may also directly contact us via E2E forums and we would be happy to help. 

Regards,
Ashley