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TINA-TI: Opamp Stability analysis Video-5 (Exercise) (Precision Opamp Labs) (Riso calculation)

Part Number: TINA-TI

Hi 

I am going through TI precision labs (Opamps) -- Stability series. I have a question about the calculation method suggested for R_iso

Video could be found at 

https://training.ti.com/ti-precision-labs-op-amps-stability-5?cu=14685

The pdf of this video course is:

https://training.ti.com/system/files/docs/1335%20-%20Stability%205%20-%20slides.pdf

& the exercise is at:

https://training.ti.com/system/files/docs/1335%20-%20Stability%205%20-%20exercises-and-solutions_1.pdf

In this video (on page 13) of the above link (pdf to video course material),it states the Design Steps to calculate the value of Riso

1) Find the zero frequency , f(zero) when AOL_LOADED = 20dB

Now, the equation of AOL_Loaded is given on page-3 of same pdf as:

AOL_Loaded = Vo/Vfb

But when I look at the solution of Exercise (problem-2)

https://training.ti.com/system/files/docs/1335%20-%20Stability%205%20-%20exercises-and-solutions_1.pdf

It seems like it is getting a value of 3.7kHz (@20dB). When I simulate the same circuit, I get fz = 17.81kHz @ 20dB for Aol_Loaded plot). However, I get 3.83kHz @ 20dB for AolB (loop gain plot)

(See my plot picture below):

So, my question is: which plot do we use to calculate the Riso value? Aol_loaded or AolB?

  • The example you refer to talks about an op amp in gain of 20 - this is equivalent of 26dB and NOT 20dB.  Thus, in order to find the frequency of interest, you may either find the crossing of AOL with 1/beta (26dB line) or look for zero crossing of the loop-gain, AolB - in each case you should get the same answer, which seems to be around 15kHZ - see below.

  • Hi Marek

    Thank you for your feedback. Regarding your comments:

    The example you refer to talks about an op amp in gain of 20 - this is equivalent of 26dB and NOT 20dB

    From what I understood (see page-13) in slides below:

    https://training.ti.com/system/files/docs/1335%20-%20Stability%205%20-%20slides.pdf

    It says to Find the zero frequency (fz) where Aol_loaded = 20dB

    It does not talk about the Gain of the circuit. But gives 20dB as a level for any circuit.  e.g., it uses the same 20dB number for Riso calculation for Buffer circuit. & Buffer has Gain of 1 = 0dB.

    I hope I have mange to explain my confusion now?

  • Ok I went through the last presentation (Video-6) of Stability series & it seems like:

    For best results, R_iso should create a ZERO in the loop response 20dB greater than the frequency where (Aol_loaded) intersects (1/Beta)

    So for this circuit, the Gain is 26dB, the two curves intersect at 26dB and now we are looking for fz at 46dB which comes out at apprx 3.84kHz

    It makes sense now. :)

  • The whole idea of using 20dB gain line and loaded_AOL to determine Riso value, for stabilizing the circuit in a buffer configuration, has to do with the fact that you need to have a decade of frequency range left to recover its phase margin to an acceptable level (>45degrees) from the pole-induced phase dip before AOL_loaded zero-crossing (where loop-gain is zero).

    But actually, it is equally important to introduce the cancelling zero within a decade of the frequency where a second pole occurs so the phase margin is not allowed to dip too low before cancelling zero recovers it to the acceptable level. This typically requires Riso resistor to be at least 1/9 of the open-loop output impedance, Ro. Of course, the best case scenario would be to determine the Riso resistor based on the location of the second pole, resulting in a minimal phase dip, but this would require Riso value to be equal to Ro, which may not be acceptable since it will cause a gain error in circuits driving resistive loads, RL – in such cases, using a double-loop stabilization method eliminates this problem.

  • Just got the same question yesterday, thanks a lot guys.