TLV1701: LTSpice simulation

Alex Pachacama

Part Number: TLV1701
Other Parts Discussed in Thread: LM2903, TLV7011, TLV7031-Q1

Dear All,

I am having an issue with the PSpice model provided for the TLV1701. I am doing a transient analysis for a circuit using it as a comparator with hysteresis. I keep receiving the following message. Is there any recommendation to solve this issue. Many thanks for your help.

Importing AEC-q200.txt

Version 4
SHEET 1 1976 4568
WIRE -48 -64 -48 -80
WIRE -48 -32 -48 -64
WIRE 272 -32 -48 -32
WIRE -48 80 -48 48
WIRE 272 80 272 -32
WIRE 112 144 -160 144
WIRE -160 160 -160 144
WIRE 112 160 112 144
WIRE 144 160 112 160
WIRE 272 176 272 160
WIRE 272 176 208 176
WIRE 336 176 272 176
WIRE 144 192 32 192
WIRE 32 256 32 192
WIRE 176 256 176 208
WIRE -160 272 -160 240
WIRE 32 352 32 336
FLAG -48 80 0
FLAG -48 -64 V+
FLAG 176 144 V+
FLAG 176 256 0
FLAG 32 352 0
FLAG -160 272 0
SYMBOL Opamps\\opamp2 176 112 R0
SYMATTR InstName U1
SYMATTR Value TLV1701
SYMBOL voltage -48 -48 R0
WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0
WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0
SYMATTR InstName V1
SYMATTR Value 3.3
SYMBOL voltage -160 144 R0
WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0
WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0
WINDOW 0 -71 -14 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName V2
SYMATTR Value SINE(0 3.2 1000)
SYMBOL voltage 32 240 R0
WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0
WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0
SYMATTR InstName V3
SYMATTR Value 2.5
SYMBOL res 256 64 R0
SYMATTR InstName R1
SYMATTR Value 5.1k
TEXT -112 656 Left 2 !.tran 0 3 0 0.001
TEXT -1504 -152 Left 2 !* TLV1701\n*****************************************************************************\n* (C) Copyright 2012 Texas Instruments Incorporated. All rights reserved.                                            \n*****************************************************************************\n** This model is designed as an aid for customers of Texas Instruments.\n** TI and its licensors and suppliers make no warranties, either expressed\n** or implied, with respect to this model, including the warranties of \n** merchantability or fitness for a particular purpose.  The model is\n** provided solely on an "as is" basis.  The entire risk as to its quality\n** and performance is with the customer.\n*****************************************************************************\n*\n** Released by: WEBENCH(R) Design Center, Texas Instruments Inc.\n* Part: TLV1701\n* Date: 12/16/2013\n* Model Type: All In One\n* Simulator: Pspice\n* Simulator Version: Pspice 16.2.0.p001\n* EVM Order Number: N/A \n* EVM Users Guide: N/A\n* Datasheet: SBOS589 - December 2013\n*\n* Model Version: 1.0\n*\n*****************************************************************************\n*\n* Updates:\n*\n* Version 1.0 : Release to Web\n*\n*****************************************************************************\n* Notes: \n* 1. The model reflects the following data sheet specs:\n*    IIB, PSRR, Output sink current at Vsupp = 36V, Output leakage current,\n*    Quiescent current\n*\n*****************************************************************************\n*$\n.SUBCKT TLV1701 INP INN VCC VEE OUT\nC_C4         INN INP  3p\nE_E2         N708688 0 VEE 0 1\nR_R6         INPUTP_GBW GNDF  100\nX_U65         INPUTP_GBW INPUTN_GBW INPUT_GOUT EN VCC VEE GNDF TLV1701_GBW_SLEW \nX_U55         INPUT_OUTN INPUTN_VOS VCC VEE GNDF TLV1701_LIM_IN \nX_U50         INN VCC TLV1701_d_ideal \nX_U56         INPUT_OUTP INPUTP_VOS VCC VEE GNDF TLV1701_LIM_IN \nX_U48         VEE INN TLV1701_d_ideal\nR_R5         GNDF INPUTN_GBW  100 \nE_E4         N708582 0 N708688 0 -1\nX_U38         VCC VEE EN VIMON GNDF TLV1701_IQ \nX_U42         VICM INP INN GNDF TLV1701_VICM \nE_E5         GNDF 0 N708586 N708582 0.5\nX_U32         OUT INPUT_VIMON VIMON GNDF TLV1701_AMETER\nC_C5         GNDF INPUT_GOUT  500nf \nV_V5         EN GNDF 1Vdc\nR_R4         INN INPUT_OUTN  1\nX_U43         N764971 GNDF VICM VCC VEE GNDF TLV1701_VOS \nE_E9         INPUTN_VOS INPUTN_DEL N764971 GNDF -0.5\nE_E8         INPUTP_VOS INPUTP_DEL N764971 GNDF 0.5\nX_U34         INPUT_OUTP GNDF VCC VEE VICM GNDF TLV1701_IIBP\nX_U33         INPUT_OUTN GNDF VCC VEE VICM GNDF TLV1701_IIBN\nX_U49         VEE INP TLV1701_d_ideal \nR_R3         INP INPUT_OUTP  1\nE_E13         INPUTN_GBW INPUTP_GBW INPUTP_DEL INPUTN_DEL 1\nC_C2         INN GNDF  2p\nX_U47         INP VCC TLV1701_d_ideal\nE_E1         N708586 0 VCC 0 1\nC_C3         GNDF INP  2p\nX_U66         INPUT_GOUT INPUT_VIMON VIMON VCC VEE GNDF TLV1701_GOUT \n.ENDS\n*$\n.subckt TLV1701_d_ideal in out\ndin in out dmod\n.model dmod d\n+ rs=1\n+ tnom=27\n.ends\n*$\n.SUBCKT TLV1701_GBW_SLEW  VIP  VIM  VO  SHDN VCC VEE GNDF \n.PARAM Aol = 120  \n.PARAM GBW = 1e12  \n.PARAM SRP = 14e6   \n.PARAM SRN = 1000e6 \n.PARAM IT = 0.001\n.PARAM PI = 3.141592\n.PARAM IP = {IT*MAX(1,SRP/SRN)}\n.PARAM IN = {IT*MIN(-1,-SRN/SRP)}\n.PARAM CC = {IT*MAX(1/SRP,1/SRN)}\n.PARAM FP = {GBW/PWR(10,AOL/20)}\n.PARAM RC = {1/(2*PI*CC*FP)}\n.PARAM GC = {PWR(10,AOL/20)/RC}\nG1p GNDF OUTG1p VALUE = {MAX(MIN(GC*V(SHDN,GNDF)*V(VIP,VIM),IP),IN)}\nG1n OUTG1n GNDF VALUE = {MAX(MIN(GC*V(SHDN,GNDF)*V(VIP,VIM),IP),IN)}\nRG1p OUTG1p GNDF {0.5*RC}\nCg1dp OUTG1p GNDF {2*CC} IC=0\nRG1n OUTG1n GNDF {0.5*RC}\nCg1dn OUTG1n GNDF {2*CC} IC=0\nG1OUT GNDF VO VALUE = {MAX(MIN(V(SHDN,GNDF)*V(OUTG1p,OUTG1n),1),0)}\nROUT VO GNDF 1\n.ENDS\n*$\n.SUBCKT TLV1701_LIM_IN IN OUT UL LL GNDF\n.PARAM VHR = 0.1\nEO OUT GNDF VALUE = {MAX(MIN(V(IN,GNDF),V(UL,GNDF)+VHR),V(LL,GNDF)-VHR)}\n.ENDS\n*$\n.SUBCKT TLV1701_GOUT IN OUT VIMON VCC VEE GNDF\n.PARAM Ileak = 0.07u\n.PARAM Imax = 0.020\nROUT OUT GNDF 1e10\nGOUT OUT VEE VALUE = {MAX(MIN(0.02*V(IN,GNDF)*V(OUT,VEE),Imax),Ileak)}\n.ENDS\n*$\n.SUBCKT TLV1701_IQ VCC VEE SHDN VIMON GNDF\n.PARAM IQ_NOM = 55u\n.PARAM IQ_SHDN = 1n\n.PARAM Geq = 1.3n\n.PARAM DRIFT = 0.176u\n.PARAM TNOM = 27\nGVAR VCC VEE VALUE = {(V(VCC,VEE)+ 1e-9)*Geq}\nGIQ VCC VEE VALUE = {V(SHDN,GNDF)*(1+DRIFT*(TEMP-TNOM))*IQ_NOM \n+ + (1-V(SHDN,GNDF))*IQ_SHDN}\nGOUTP VCC GNDF VALUE = {IF(V(VIMON,GNDF) > 0, V(VIMON,GNDF)*V(SHDN,GNDF),0)}\nGOUTN GNDF VEE VALUE = {IF(V(VIMON,GNDF) <= 0, V(VIMON,GNDF)*V(SHDN,GNDF),0)}\n.ENDS\n*$\n.SUBCKT TLV1701_VICM OUT INP INN GNDF\nEOUT OUT GNDF VALUE = {0.5*(V(INP,GNDF) + V(INN,GNDF))}\n.ENDS\n*$\n.SUBCKT TLV1701_AMETER  VI  VO VIMON GNDF\n.PARAM GAIN = 1\nVSENSE VI VO DC = 0\nEMETER VIMON GNDF VALUE = {I(VSENSE)*GAIN}\n.ENDS\n*$\n.SUBCKT TLV1701_VOS OUT IN VICM VCC VEE GNDF\n.PARAM SCALE = 1e-6\n.PARAM DRIFT = 4\n.PARAM VICM_SHIFT = 10\n.PARAM VCC_SHIFT = 15\n.PARAM VCC_NOM = 12\n.PARAM VOS_TYP = 4000\nEDRIFT NDRIFT 0 VALUE = {DRIFT*(TEMP - 27)}\nESHIFT NSHIFT 0 VALUE = {VICM_SHIFT*V(VICM,GNDF)}\nEVCCSHIFT NVCCSHIFT 0 VALUE = {VCC_SHIFT*(V(VCC,VEE) - VCC_NOM)}\nEVOS OUT IN VALUE = {SCALE*(VOS_TYP + V(NDRIFT) + V(NSHIFT) + V(NVCCSHIFT))}\n.ENDS\n*$\n.SUBCKT TLV1701_IIBP OUT IN VCC VEE INP GNDF\n.PARAM SCALE = 1p\n.PARAM IIBtyp = 5000\n.PARAM m2v = 0.001\nEin Nin 0 VALUE = {V(INP,GNDF)}\nE2v N2v 0 VALUE = {m2v*V(Nin) + IIBtyp}\nEIIBv NIIBv 0 VALUE = {V(N2v)/1}\nGOUT OUT IN VALUE = {SCALE*V(NIIBv)}\n.ENDS\n*$\n.SUBCKT TLV1701_IIBN OUT IN VCC VEE INN GNDF\n.PARAM SCALE = 1p\n.PARAM IIBtyp = 4500\n.PARAM m2v = 0.001\nEin Nin 0 VALUE = {V(INN,GNDF)}\nE2v N2v 0 VALUE = {m2v*V(Nin) + IIBtyp}\nEIIBv NIIBv 0 VALUE = {V(N2v)/1}\nGOUT OUT IN VALUE = {SCALE*V(NIIBv)}\n.ENDS\n*$

Kind Regards,

Alex

over 4 years ago

0 Paul Grohe over 4 years ago

TI__Guru 53816 points

Hello Alex,

I do not see any error messages. Unfortunately, you cannot just paste a graphic into the editor. You must attach any graphics using the "Insert Media" icon, above and to the left of the paperclip (picture with the plus).

You can attach your simulation, but please beware that we can only provide very minimal support for LTSpice.

0 Alex Pachacama over 4 years ago in reply to Paul Grohe

Prodigy 80 points

Hi Paul,

Thank you for the advice. I have now edited my initial post and attached the image and my LTSpice simulation.

As you can see in the simulation file, I am using the comparator without hysteresis. The main thing I am trying to do is be able to import the model in LTSpice.

Any help or advice would be very much appreciated.

Kind regards,

Alex

0 Paul Grohe over 4 years ago in reply to Alex Pachacama

TI__Guru 53816 points

Hi Alex,

Can you attach your actual schematic (.asc file) - reverse-engineering a net list is a bit time consuming...

But it looks like you are setting a 1ms Maximum time stamp with a long sim time (3 second). Try blanking-out the "Maximum Time Stamp" in the Edit Simulation Command window, or, decreasing the sim time. The comparator contains finite delay times and long sim times may cause issues with the minimum time steps.

0 Alex Pachacama over 4 years ago in reply to Paul Grohe

Prodigy 80 points

Hi Paul,

I have not been successful in attaching the LTSpice file. However, if you change the .txt extension with .asc you should be able to open it in LTSpice.If it does not work let me know and I will contact the adm support to allow me updating the asc files.

I have tried all the things you have suggested already but the same error message appears.

Hope you can open the file and advise further. Many thanks for your help.

0 Chuck Sins over 4 years ago in reply to Alex Pachacama

TI__Mastermind 24480 points

Alex

Paul will get a chance to try this again tomorrow and see if he can replicate the problem. Another option is for you to use our simulation tool TINA.

There are some limitations to what we can provide related to LTSpice.

Chuck

0 Alex Pachacama over 4 years ago in reply to Chuck Sins

Prodigy 80 points

Hi Chuck,

Thank you very much for your post. I was wondering whether you can recommend another equivalent comparator that I can use for simulations in LTSpice. The TLV1701 works just fine with other circuits but not for the one I am planning to use in my design. I have tried using other comparator models like the LM2903 and even though not ideally it works and there are some other comparators in LTSpice library that I use and they work, so not sure what the problem is still. It is worth to mention that I am going for the TLV1701 instead of the LM2903 just because of the common-mode voltage. For my circuit, I am using the 3.3V and GND to power the comparator and by looking at the spec of the LM2903 the max common-mode voltage is Vs -2V for the whole operating range so I decided to use the TLV1701 since the max common-mode voltage is Vs. I have attached some images of what I am trying to achieve. Many thanks in advance for your help.

Kind Regards,

Alex

0 Chi Nguyen1 over 4 years ago in reply to Alex Pachacama

TI__Genius 11701 points

Alex,

We recommend using the TLV7011 comparator (https://www.ti.com/product/TLV7011) as you're operating at low supply voltage range as well as it fits your max common voltage requirement. The TLV7011 is also a push-pull comparator so there is no need for a pull up resistor and it will just pull up to 3.3V since you're not level shifting anyways. I used your desired low and high threshold voltages of 0.5V and 1.5V so my resistor values are different from yours. For my input, I superimposed a 200Hz signal and 20kHz signal to replicate your input (see my screenshot below). Please also see attached our TINA simulation as well as PSpice model.

Chi

TLV7011-2020-05-27T18-16.zip TLV7011_hysckt.TSC

0 Alex Pachacama over 4 years ago in reply to Chi Nguyen1

Prodigy 80 points

Dear Chi,

Thank you very much for your reply. I have been trying to get my head around some of the datasheet specifications, specifically the common-mode voltage range. In the comparator datasheet, it is stated that for Vcm, Vmin = VEE , Vmax = VCC + 0.1. For the model, you have kindly shared with me and from my simulations, I have been using the following equation to calculate the Vcm = (Vin+ + Vin-)/2. Please see attached. So is it right to say that as long as the Vcm is within Vmin in my case GND and Vmax 3.3V, and the input signal doesn't exceed the voltage supply of the comparator, there should not be any problem with the comparator operation?

Furthermore, I have just realised that the comparator you have recommended is not automotive qualified. Is there any other automotive one that you can recommend for the discussed circuit?

Many thanks in advance for your help and support.

Kind Regards,

Alex

0 Alex Pachacama over 4 years ago in reply to Chi Nguyen1

Prodigy 80 points

Dear Chi,

Furthermore, I have just realised that the comparator you have recommended is not automotive qualified. Is there any other automotive one that you can recommend for the discussed circuit?

Many thanks in advance for your help and support.

Kind Regards,

Alex

0 Chi Nguyen1 over 4 years ago in reply to Alex Pachacama

TI__Genius 11701 points

Hi Alex,

Your definition of Vcm = (Vin+ and Vin-)/2 is only true for op amps under feedback, NOT for comparators. Comparators are rarely operated with the inputs close together and they usually have a large several voltage difference between the inputs. Therefore, the Vcm input range specification is PER INPUT; do not take the average of the inputs. So look at each input voltage individually and make sure they are both within the limits and then your comparator operation will work correctly.

As for an automotive qualified comparator, I recommend the TLV7031-Q1.

tlv7031-2020-07-13T19-25.zip

0 Chuck Sins over 4 years ago in reply to Chi Nguyen1

TI__Mastermind 24480 points

There has not been any new responses on this thread, so the thread will be closed.

If you need additional support, feel free to reply or create a new thread.

Thanks

Chuck

0 Alex Pachacama over 4 years ago in reply to Chi Nguyen1

Prodigy 80 points

Hi Chin,

Sorry for the very long delay in my reply. Thank you very much for the clarification and recommendation that has been very useful.

Kind Regards,

Alex

0 Chuck Sins over 4 years ago in reply to Alex Pachacama

TI__Mastermind 24480 points

Thanks Alex for the response, I will make sure Chi is aware of your response.

I will now close the post.

Chuck

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TLV1701: LTSpice simulation