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OPA 188

Other Parts Discussed in Thread: OPA188, TINA-TI

I measure the closed loop of OPA188 and the bandwidth is not like in datasheet 

someone can explain to me PLZ

  • A tina file would be necessary

    or at least a schematic

  • I see the tina file but the result is not correct so I go for help

  • Again, what TINA file? yours, the online reference design What?

  • Hello user6349971,

    Michael's request is right. We need to see the circuit schematic to understand why you are getting the unexpected OPA188 Bode plot results.What instrument are you using to make the measurement and how is it connected to the OPA188? It looks like there may be a resonance with the setup around 1 MHz.

    Regards, Thomas

    Precision Amplifiers Applications Engineering

  • Sorry, I misunderstand your mean 

    This is my Tina file 

    opa188.TSC

    The Tina file's result is not the same with I post,and I think my Tina file is not correct I don't know how to fix

  • This is my Tina file 

    0410.opa188.TSC

    Do I did something wrong?

  • Yea, you have your DC bias at ground for a ground negative supply, the output does not operate with no headroom - here is a little DC bias added 

    Here is back at ground with the output saturated into the supply rail, doesn't look too good

  • Your mean is I can't let V+ to ground?
    another questions why the result is not like in datasheet 

  • You can't ask the output to approach ground, these RR outputs all require some headroom - often, the input can go to ground but in unity gain that is not the limit, 

    The simulated gain of 1 SSBW often does not match "measured" data sheet plots for several reasons,

    The red curve is what we are looking at here, about 6MHz SSBW gain of +1. But, this has 10kohm in parallel with 100pF load defined - that CLoad is often used to extend the bandwidth by reducing the phase margin, 

    If I rerun your circuit with that load, I get this, that is really off, model must have very poor Aol match to the device, but actually, this is supposed to be a 2MHz GBP part, at noise gain of 3, that measured plot looks way off. Should be <1MHz. Might have put in a curve from a different part. not much change here, about 500kHz F-3dB. 

    If I run a LG on this ng of 3 circuit, I get this, 500kHz LG=0dB xover with 90deg phase margin? Should be about 500kHz closed loop as the closed loop sim with some DC bias shows. Yes, the measured figure 8 might be from a different part. 

  • what's the LG and ng usually I need to add Rload in my circuit

    In the buck converter  the Rload I didn't use so I don't understand why should I need to add Rload and why the Cload could extend the bandwidth

  • Hello user6349971,

    When I simulate the OPA188 open-loop gain (Aol)  vs frequency using a little different circuit arrangement than Michael used the response agrees closely with the datasheet Figure 7, Open-Loop Gain and Phase vs Frequency graph. The 2 MHz gain-bandwidth product frequency is obtained and the phase margin looks very close.

    The Aol simulation circuit was set up with the VCM set to a mid-scale level of +2.5 V, to place the OPA188 input and output at one-half the +5 V supply voltage. The OPA188 output was loaded in the simulation circuit with the 10 kilohm resistor and 100 pF cap to ground as used for the Figure 7 graph. 

    The OPA188 simulation model is accurate and it includes the correct open-loop output impedance (Zo) vs frequency which is needed for accurate ac simulations. You will need to make sure the OPA188 sees a good circuit representation for the buck converter load if you want good results.

    Regards, Thomas

    Precision Amplifiers Applications Engineering

  • Well yes Tom, I don't think our LG sim approaches should diverge much in this case - your approach isolates the open loop output impedance from the feedback load - makes more of a difference if the feedback has a cap. The reason my LG plot looked different was I was not running an Aol (or NG=1) but a NG=3 test, his application. 

    I think the question is if the unity gain LG is 2MHz crossover, why does the closed loop plot of Figure 8 show a 7MHz SSBW? 

  • Can you offered to me your simulate file 
    why we need to add L1 and C1 

  • Michael,

    As you know in the AC close-loop output response, there is an interaction between the op amp’s output impedance and input capacitance causing gain peaking that is especially pronounced in low gain – this tends to extend the close-loop bandwidth beyond its theoretical value that assumes a first-order system response. The higher the gain the lower the gain peaking. Having said that gain peaking in a unity gain configuration typically just doubles the theoretical close-loop bandwidth. Thus, I agree that 7MHz is more than one would expect – for this reason, I would question accuracy of the raggedy curve for G=1 - it seems like it was hand-drawn.

  • Actually, the ideal SSBW extension from LG=0dB crossing for phase margin <60deg is about 1.6X. That, plus a LG sim technique that does not isolate the open loop output impedance from the feedback network,  is in this article, 

    So it would appear this OPA188 plot might be in error in summary. 

  • Hello user6349971,

    I have attached my OPA188 TINA-TI Spice file for your use.

    L1 and C1 are not actual components you would add to your real circuit, but are included specifically for the Bode gain/phase response simulation. C1 provides ac coupling to very low frequencies and blocks dc, while L1 provides a dc current path yet blocks ac. Their use is explained in the TI Precision Labs Op amps series in Section 10 - TI Precision Labs - Op Amps: Stability. You can access the series here:

    training.ti.com/ti-precision-labs-op-amps

    Regards, Thomas

    Precision Amplifiers Applications Engineering

    OPA188_Aol_01.TSC