This thread has been locked.

If you have a related question, please click the "Ask a related question" button in the top right corner. The newly created question will be automatically linked to this question.

LMX2572: More clock outputs

Part Number: LMX2572
Other Parts Discussed in Thread: , LMK04832, LMX2582, LMK00304

Hi,

Currently using the LMX2572 synthesizer for clocking some TI ADCs.  Is there another IC I could use that would get me to 4 outputs instead of two?  Ideally it would keep the same jitter specs as the LMX2572 has (or perhaps be a little better).  If not, what TI buffer chip (low jitter) would be a good choice to generate more clock outputs?

thanks

  • Hi Dennis,

    We don't have a device that can generate more than two outputs above 3.2GHz. So it depends on the frequency you need:

    • Up to 3.2GHz, the LMK04832 is the preferred low-jitter solution for generating >2 ADC clocks, and includes a SYSREF generator if needed.
    • Up to 3.1GHz, the LMK00304 buffer for an LMX2572LP output is the best option. (note we can use P2P lower-cost LP here since the frequency range is restricted)
    • Above 3.1GHz, the LMX1204 (currently in product preview) buffer for an LMX2572 output is the best option. However, the price is sort of eye-watering, because of the inclusion of SYSREF functionality.

    While I don't make a habit of plugging competitors, I would be remiss to ignore the HMC987 DC-8GHz fanout buffer as a reasonable solution across the entire LMX2572 output frequency range (especially if it helps keep the LMX2572 and the TI ADCs on the board).

    Regards,

    Derek Payne

  • Hi Derek,

    Thanks for answering my question. 

    Would the LMK04832 be a better solution for more clock outputs rather than the combination of the LMX2572 + HMC987 (aka LTC 6955)?  I am looking to get less jitter/phase noise.  We seem to be having good luck with the LMX2572 synthesizer.

    dennis brown

  • Dennis,

    Depends on the frequency you need. It's worth noting that the LMX2572 is a fractional synthesizer with no frequency holes, while LMK04832 is an integer-only PLL with two VCO cores (2440 to 2580 MHz and 2945 to 3255 MHz) and quite a few frequency holes. In many cases LMX2572 wins by default, simply because it can hit the required frequency.

    But in cases where LMK04832 could be used, it usually comes out ahead. Comparing an LMX2572 at 3.2GHz to an LMK04832 at 3.2GHz (using the latest PLLatinum Sim, version 1.6.0.0 as of this post):

    • LMK04832, 3.2GHz carrier, 320MHz phase detector, integration range 1kHz to 20MHz, I get about 56fs jitter.
    • LMX2572, 3.2GHz carrier, 200MHz phase detector, integration range 1kHz to 20MHz, I get about 71fs jitter.
    • Plot below shows black line (LMX2572) optimized, vs dotted red line (LMK04832) optimized:

    This comparison favors LMK04832 since the phase detector frequency can be higher and the in-band PLL noise can be reduced, but the floor is inarguably better since LMK04832 can use CML bypass mode direct from the VCO whereas LMX2572 is using the lower-performing divider path. If we pick a different example at 2.5GHz:

    • LMK04832, 2.5GHz carrier, 250MHz phase detector, integration range 1kHz to 20MHz, I get about 54fs jitter.
    • LMX2572, 2.5GHz carrier, 250MHz phase detector, integration range 1kHz to 20MHz, I get about 70fs jitter.
    • Plot below shows black line (LMX2572) optimized, vs dotted red line (LMK04832) optimized:

    Still favorable for LMK04832, because the noise floor is better and the N-divider can be lower.

    Now, if I pick both devices to do 491.52MHz, with a 122.88MHz input source:

    • LMK04832, 491.52MHz carrier, 245.76MHz phase detector, integration range 1kHz to 20MHz, I get about 68fs jitter.
    • LMX2572, 491.52MHz carrier, 122.88MHz phase detector (limited by divider requirements), integration range 1kHz to 20MHz, I get about 88fs jitter.
    • Plot below shows black line (LMX2572) optimized, vs dotted red line (LMK04832) optimized:

    The divider floor on the LMX2572 just isn't very good relative to the LMK04832, and the higher supported integer mode phase detector clearly improves performance a lot. LMK04832 still performs better in-band due to the lower N-divider.

    Finally, picking 156.25MHz output, with 125MHz input source:

    • LMK04832, 156.25MHz carrier, 250MHz phase detector, integration range 1kHz to 20MHz, I get about 91fs jitter.
    • LMX2572, 156.25MHz carrier, 250MHz phase detector, integration range 1kHz to 20MHz, I get about 104fs jitter.
    • Plot below shows black line (LMX2572) optimized, vs dotted red line (LMK04832) optimized:

    Now even with the floor advantage mostly gone, LMX2572 still has significantly worse PLL noise because of the higher N-divider. Maybe over a wider integration bandwidth the floor contribution could add up.

    If the LMK04832 can hit the frequency, and has an optimal reference input to get a decent phase detector frequency, it will perform better than LMX2572. Again, I must stress that LMX2572 can hit a bunch of frequencies that LMK04832 simply can't, either because the maximum frequency on LMK04832 is too low, or because the LMX2572 can synthesize arbitrary fractions; there are cases where LMX2572 makes much more sense. Otherwise, LMK04832 tends to be the better option, simply because the VCO frequency and the N-divider are so much lower.

    ---

    Last comparison: the same exercise as above, but with LMX2582 instead:

    LMX2582 just barely outperforms LMK04832 at similar operating conditions (LMX2582 scores 86fs jitter), with 4x higher charge pump gain and the doubler disabled to help match 1/f noise and meet phase detector requirements (125MHz PFD). The effect of the higher frequency VCO, and the penalty for the higher N-divider, is still apparent. LMX2582 is the best performing VCO in our portfolio, aside from a few devices with BAW resonators; the difference is almost purely PLL noise.

    Even with better performance and lower total solution cost (LMX2582 + LMK00304 < LMK04832), there is still the additive jitter from the LMK00304 floor which would likely make the overall LMX2582 solution jitter higher. It is difficult to beat LMK04832 in a frequency range where it is designed to operate. On the other hand, HMC987/LTC6955 has low enough floor that final performance is probably a wash; but now solution cost is probably higher than just using LMK04832.

    Regards,

    Derek Payne

  • Derek

    I have to say this is one of best responses.  Way more than what I expected.  This was very helpful in determining a direction to go.  Still going to be using TI parts but we might go the direction of adding in the separate driver.  There is system s/w to update so for the time being it might be best to not change the ADC clock much.  

    Also thankful that there is a simulation tool here with PLLatinum.  Didn't know about that.

    dennis brown