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LMX2594: spurious in integer mode ; IC ref choice

Part Number: LMX2594
Other Parts Discussed in Thread: LMX2592

Hello Team

I come back with LMX2594. For phase conservation reason, I prefer to use integer or mash modulator with integer relation between Fosc=32 Mhz=F_PFD and Fout=7744Mhz. I try to have a spectrum without spurious, except F_PFD and harmonics.

In integer mode, I see some spurious at 100Hz. I confirm with spectrum analyzer looking Fout and also mixing output with Lab generator at the same frequency. See pulse at 100 Hz on oscilloscope. I know that internal architecture is more complicated that a simple N integer PLL. Could you confirm that we can not have simple integer behavior even in ‘’integer mode’’. See associated tcs file

I change mash ordre to 3..4. It removes 100Hz spurious, but I see spurious at +- 45Khz. I see also effect with other spurious and ICP value 3 ,6 ,9 ,12mA but not 15mA. I will be interested to have the best configuration for lower spurious. I don’t optimize the loop filter yet: we will use a low Fc (about 50khz).

The LMX2592 have other behavior about spurious (VCO is *2 for 7744Mhz output). I choose the LMX2594 because 7744 MHz output is available with internal VCO without multiplication (better phase noise). May be you have a better IC suggestion for my requirements: no spurious close to the carrier, phase conservation after on, off (integer value with 32 MHz).

Regards   7744integermodeSpur100hz.tcs7744ref32M_4thMash.tcs

  • Hi Remi,

    I am not convinced that the 100Hz spurs is generated from the synthesizer, I tend to believe that this 100Hz signal is coming from the 50Hz AC main supply. However, it is odd that this spurs can be removed with other MASH order.

    A lot of my equipment is out for calibration, right now I can only support testing up to 7GHz. Do you see the same problem with the channel divider set to div/2? If this is the case, I can verify it in my lab.

  • Hello Noel,

    I do the same with div2 channel at 3872 Mhz output: you can try the *.tcs file

    It is the same result with different RF generators, different 10 MHz reference for RF generator.

     3872Mref32spur100Hz.tcs

    You can see that 100hz spur on oscilloscope (0hz beating) are pulses negatives or positives. The issue increases with CP change, and also inf 32 Mhz REFoscin  is lowering and with mash modulator choice. Thus, I thing this issue is coming from locking loop and internal architecture. Maybe TI can confirm it.

     100 Hz Spur can be canceled in integer mode, with correct 32Mhz REFOSC level, but in this case the issue is different: I see some jumps , few in 3 seconds. See attached tcs file for mode and picture with max hold ( blue ) on spectrum Analyzer. Same result if I disconnect the SPI interface.

     3872Mref32spurLOWfreq.tcs

    Please, could you try to see the same effect on your side, at 3872 Mhz? Today we can not use this IC for our design if I cannot solve the issue.

    Thanks for help. Regards

  • Hi Remi,

    Tomorrow the lab is full, I can do it on Thursday.

  • Hi Remi,

    I did see some 100Hz spurs, but I think they came from AC-line as I could see the same spurs with a signal generator.

    The burred trace came from LMX2594, using your configuration.

    The dark blue trace is from SMA100 signal generator. 

    I also not see any sudden phase noise jump happen during the measurement. Were you testing your board or our EVM? 

  • Hello Noel,

    Thanks for your help. I see again theses spurious, and also with LMx2592 sometimes. I don’t have a clear explanation but I improve the results with:

    New linear power supply. “homemade’’ with simple bridge diode, transformer, LDO.

    Some other spurious came from SPI connection. Some time without any programming process.  I disconnect it after programming and it solve a part of the issue.

    I need to look at PN from 10hz to the carrier: I cannot use on board crystal oscillator,  frequency is not enough stable for PN measurement. Thus, I’m using an external generator for reference. It cost about 40keuros, with very low PN and spurious specification. But with multiplying effect I can see , around the 7744 Mhz carrier , some spurious witch are not visible at 32Mhz generator output ( < 90dBc). Theses spurious are not comming LMX2594, but from RF generator.

    I’m sorry to take you about sudden phase jumps. They came from cell phone 5m away, even if I’m using coaxial with my reference generator. Effect is not visible with on board 100Mhz crystal oscillator.

    As a conclusion, I don’t see unpredictable spurious in integer mode on LMX2594. Need more investigation on my side to be confirmed.

    Regards

  • Hi Remi,

    Great, feel free to keep us post if you see problem again.