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LMK04832: Clock Group and Clock Frequency: Optimized performance

KLN
Intellectual 320 points
Part Number: LMK04832

 Hi

I have a question on LMK04832, Regarding clock group and clock frequency.

Is there a relationship between Clock group and Clock frequency?

      

  • Is the clock group should have same frequency?
    • For eg., CLKOUT6, CLKOUT8 should have same frequency?
    • OR They can be different frequency?
  • Are the clock group shall have same IO Standard? 
    • For eg., CLKOUT6, CLKOUT7 (DCLK's) should be of same IO Standard?
  • Power supply side, I will be filtering each clock group through separate ferrite bead.

Also, I've attached the different clock scheme based on clock grouping

Can you please let me know which one would be best for my case? 

BITE clock would be 3.2GHz (VCO Frequency without any divider)

 

 

Clock scheme on clock group has considered 

1) pcb layout (3U card)

2) clock grouping so that noise will be minimised. 

I would welcome your suggestions or feedback.

  • 0
    TI__Genius 12090 points

    Hello, 

    It is recommended to keep common frequency outputs within the same clock group to minimize crosstalk. For example, all of your 5MHz SYSREF outputs could be placed in one clock group, while your MGT_REF outputs could be placed in the clock group on the opposite side of the device. It is also recommended to use a separate ferrite bead for each clock output group like you're doing. I don't believe the output format needs to be kept the same for each output in a clock group. 

    I think that clock scheme 1 would be best since it keeps the 3 GHz output in its own group and helps isolate it from the other outputs. If you have a .tcs config file for each frequency plan, I can test it out in the lab and confirm which one has the best performance. 

    Regards, 

    Connor 

  • 0 in reply to Connor Lewis
    Intellectual 320 points

    I have attached the different grouping tcs file 

    Can you please check once in lab and confirm which has the best performance?

    Also, please try to share us the phase noise values at 100MHz, 160MHz, and 3.2GHz for different cases, If possible.

    Group1:

    Group1_3200Fs.tcs

    2. Grouping 2

    Group2_3200Fs.tcs

    3. Grouping 3

    Group3_3200Fs.tcs

  • 0 in reply to KLN
    TI__Genius 10985 points

    Hello KLN,

    Connor is currently OoO and will get back to you by the end of the week.

    Best,

    Andrea

  • 0 in reply to Andrea Vallenilla
    TI__Genius 12090 points

    Hi KLN, 

    Thanks for providing the tcs files, I will check the phase noise performance for each config in the lab tomorrow. 

    Regards, 

    Connor 

  • 0 in reply to Connor Lewis
    TI__Genius 12090 points

    Hi KLN, 

    Unfortunately I was running into some issues measuring this in the lab and it will take some time to debug. I will come back to look at this after the holidays in the first week of January. 

    Regards, 

    Connor 

  • 0 in reply to Connor Lewis
    Intellectual 320 points

    Hi Connor Lewis

    Please if possible try before January, as we have gerber release planned for this board on 28th of Dec.

    Thanks

  • 0 in reply to KLN
    TI__Genius 10985 points

    Hello KLN,

    Due to the holidays, please expect a delay in our response.

  • 0 in reply to KLN
    TI__Genius 12090 points

    Hello, 

    Apologies for the delay, most of our team was either out of office or working remotely so we were unable to test this in the lab earlier. Based on my measurements, config 1 had the best overall performance. I wouldn't recommend using config 3 because I saw more spurs on the 100 MHz and 160 MHz outputs, especially on CLKout8. Unfortunately for config 3 I wasn't able to test the 3.2 GHz output since the SMA connectors for CLKout10 and 11 weren't populated on the board I was using. 

    I've attached a quick summary of some of the measurements I took, let me know if there's anything else you'd like more details on. 

    Regards, 

    Connor 

    LMK04832_Crosstalk_measurements.xlsx

  • 0 in reply to Connor Lewis
    Intellectual 320 points

    Hi

    For Case3, Missing 3.2G Phase noise plot.

    Can you please check?

  • 0 in reply to KLN
    TI__Genius 12090 points

    Hi, 

    I wasn't able to test the 3.2 GHz output for case 3 because the SMA connectors for CLKout10 and CLKout11 weren't populated on the board I was using. I can check this configuration but I'll need to send the EVM for a rework which may take a few days. 

    Regards, 

    Connor 

  • 0 in reply to Connor Lewis
    TI__Genius 12090 points

    Hi KLN, 

    Apologies for the delay, it took longer than expected to get the board back from the rework. I collected some data for the 3.2GHz output on config 3 and the results are attached below, let me know if you need anything else. 

    Regards, 

    Connor 

    Fullscreen pn_2024-01-26_15-28-44_OUT10_3200MHz_norm.txt Download 
    # Filename = pn_2024-01-26_15-28-44_OUT10_3200MHz_norm.txt
#
# -= E5052 Info =-
# Frequency = 3200000002.19 MHz
# Power = -13.9606145455 dBm
# RMS Jitter = 222.3089 fs rms
# OMIS = 0
# POW = 0
# IF Gain = 40
# Other Notes = None#
# +++ Spur Table +++
# 498510.624459	-72.9720490843
# 1000000.0	-81.3090585631
# 1507629.3156	-85.332156228
# 2005975.3011	-88.0653660088
# 3024267.17031	-89.8849394633
# 14037404.7276	-80.8903511496
# 27660527.9492	-85.623213191
# 72521222.4722	-76.7451261194
# 86693092.6644	-62.8367742992
# --- Spur Table ---
#
1000.0	-97.8237820247
1018.00975118	-97.8867821728
1036.3438535	-99.5757459179
1055.00814844	-99.6359917709
1074.00858268	-101.965843188
1093.35121002	-101.442521296
1113.04219327	-101.499186869
1133.08780622	-100.072971299
1153.49443568	-100.83213145
1174.26858345	-100.868090075
1195.41686846	-101.986869757
1216.94602882	-100.463784627
1238.86292399	-100.496104985
1261.174537	-97.7213833295
1283.88797661	-99.3094026952
1307.01047961	-102.379848199
1330.54941314	-102.822387121
1354.512277	-102.849821473
1378.90670608	-102.627017415
1403.74047276	-102.230129273
1429.02148939	-102.032864923
1454.75781085	-100.453760903
1480.95763705	-97.3101566066
1507.6293156	-98.4366509769
1534.78134445	-98.4593625528
1562.42237458	-100.188809356
1590.56121278	-98.9650701188
1619.20682446	-99.2123051368
1648.36833648	-100.278675826
1678.05504007	-99.8052382104
1708.27639381	-100.228804831
1739.04202661	-100.639468139
1770.3617408	-100.98148247
1802.24551525	-102.053818811
1834.70350855	-101.470934398
1867.74606222	-101.332960403
1901.38370407	-101.661355095
1935.62715148	-101.242904967
1970.48731486	-100.81023886
2005.9753011	-100.022129895
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2078.88017356	-101.82910252
2116.32028822	-101.262555546
2154.43469003	-101.57986354
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2232.73514878	-101.312225059
2272.94615326	-101.011034124
2313.88134792	-100.980839271
2355.55377526	-99.0269011813
2397.97671264	-98.3231377245
2441.16367658	-100.394544826
2485.12842698	-101.016485288
2529.8849716	-101.936476599
2575.44757045	-101.733614283
2621.83074038	-101.641041181
2669.04925965	-100.731743469
2717.1181727	-99.8188370528
2766.05279492	-100.347609899
2815.86871751	-101.315741775
2866.58181246	-100.45821387
2918.20823764	-100.386984354
2970.7644419	-101.288366673
3024.26717031	-100.790361543
3078.73346955	-101.059676826
3134.18069329	-100.437833101
3190.62650773	-99.9186356664
3248.08889724	-100.397432278
3306.58617009	-99.5514878963
3366.13696427	-101.025992118
3426.76025343	-100.888601923
3488.47535295	-101.575980623
3551.30192606	-100.86052858
3615.25999011	-100.121460624
3680.36992298	-101.102626129
3746.65246955	-101.015406421
3814.12874828	-100.539863655
3882.82025801	-99.0555294328
3952.74888473	-98.9648777914
4023.93690862	-99.4664542985
4096.40701111	-100.032295603
4170.18228212	-100.112081427
4245.28622739	-101.210792663
4321.74277604	-101.224876611
4399.5762881	-101.036491416
4478.81156235	-101.278682751
4559.47384417	-100.268953379
4641.58883361	-101.702960904
4725.18269359	-100.047870551
4810.28205818	-98.8249103507
4896.91404115	-100.273224522
4985.10624459	-100.377298556
5074.88676766	-100.197423994
5166.28421561	-100.573517495
5259.32770886	-100.871062691
5354.04689227	-100.726977722
5450.47194461	-101.189865247
5548.63358815	-100.331553728
5648.56309846	-99.939764054
5750.29231439	-100.625551597
5853.85364818	-101.402243396
5959.28009583	-101.537350054
6066.60524757	-100.640710269
6175.86329859	-100.625433998
6287.08905992	-100.487192589
6400.31796953	-99.677237311
6515.58610364	-100.645013567
6632.93018816	-100.99620462
6752.38761044	-100.883618557
6873.99643118	-100.723044179
6997.79539652	-99.997063102
7123.82395042	-99.9480289797
7252.12224722	-99.4562247948
7382.73116442	-100.655110427
7515.69231572	-100.925332499
7651.04806427	-100.36863455
7788.84153618	-101.051327505
7929.11663423	-99.7032272373
8071.91805189	-99.9067992638
8217.29128755	-100.453285323
8365.28265901	-100.639667027
8515.93931825	-100.215296607
8669.30926644	-100.783636422
8825.44136923	-100.508668935
8984.38537235	-100.772930432
9146.19191741	-100.114957916
9310.91255809	-100.306424129
9478.59977652	-100.920944601
9649.30700003	-100.300362833
9823.08861817	-100.507176782
10000.0	-100.359844779
10180.0975118	-100.397954622
10363.438535	-99.7560021897
10550.0814844	-100.147269666
10740.0858268	-100.145773971
10933.5121002	-100.319138336
11130.4219327	-100.579037471
11330.8780622	-100.251405825
11534.9443568	-100.21367072
11742.6858345	-99.9807645509
11954.1686846	-100.283389915
12169.4602882	-100.167895535
12388.6292399	-99.8867773088
12611.74537	-99.5724277306
12838.8797661	-99.6193380286
13070.1047961	-99.9381644454
13305.4941314	-99.881124175
13545.12277	-99.7496357169
13789.0670608	-99.7042854684
14037.4047276	-99.815319338
14290.2148939	-99.8463310422
14547.5781085	-99.9562100525
14809.5763705	-99.9391423622
15076.293156	-99.8977502472
15347.8134445	-99.9631180816
15624.2237458	-99.9972300001
15905.6121278	-99.9952056248
16192.0682446	-99.9492411806
16483.6833648	-99.8600955538
16780.5504007	-99.7057683129
17082.7639381	-99.497470135
17390.4202661	-99.6574494961
17703.617408	-99.9006809284
18022.4551525	-99.6791542238
18347.0350855	-99.8998817214
18677.4606222	-99.9054156833
19013.8370407	-99.835477695
19356.2715148	-99.8800143845
19704.8731486	-99.7721308763
20059.753011	-99.6594336139
20421.0241715	-99.9634683568
20788.8017356	-99.8166367122
21163.2028822	-99.6108941684
21544.3469003	-99.3344216392
21932.3552273	-99.3047791458
22327.3514878	-99.6099756681
22729.4615326	-99.4009794281
23138.8134792	-99.1227064077
23555.5377526	-99.5564156483
23979.7671264	-99.4151135612
24411.6367658	-99.3307848058
24851.2842698	-99.2750883716
25298.849716	-99.1144870897
25754.4757045	-99.0682390319
26218.3074038	-99.3127483743
26690.4925965	-99.3944524869
27171.181727	-99.4821255271
27660.5279492	-99.4254581544
28158.6871751	-99.0894722858
28665.8181246	-99.1476183955
29182.0823764	-99.3976981051
29707.644419	-99.3333528983
30242.6717031	-99.2404967066
30787.3346955	-99.3482506603
31341.8069329	-99.3427220257
31906.2650773	-99.2308487718
32480.8889724	-99.2789601528
33065.8617009	-99.2833068348
33661.3696427	-99.2989898146
34267.6025343	-99.4024057584
34884.7535295	-99.4409187827
35513.0192606	-99.3306130181
36152.5999011	-99.4112416042
36803.6992298	-99.4620968917
37466.5246955	-99.5697040236
38141.2874828	-99.4567475428
38828.2025801	-99.5003191516
39527.4888473	-99.5069571579
40239.3690862	-99.6574914751
40964.0701111	-99.6142152117
41701.8228212	-99.690972966
42452.8622739	-99.6178013812
43217.4277604	-100.184655262
43995.762881	-99.8242789099
44788.1156235	-99.8521801895
45594.7384417	-100.107390039
46415.8883361	-99.9438902401
47251.8269359	-100.056194296
48102.8205818	-100.196736203
48969.1404115	-99.9355688615
49851.0624459	-100.206552577
50748.8676766	-100.299526888
51662.8421561	-100.317411738
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53540.4689227	-100.584986142
54504.7194461	-100.431691746
55486.3358815	-100.448691323
56485.6309846	-100.690618232
57502.9231439	-100.790470906
58538.5364818	-100.916538522
59592.8009583	-100.800559914
60666.0524757	-101.066563935
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65155.8610364	-101.320518111
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100000.0	-104.090026188
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535404.689227	-124.317552607
545047.194461	-124.543518313
554863.358815	-124.726757997
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585385.364818	-125.439202441
595928.009583	-125.611065271
606660.524757	-125.868450586
617586.329859	-126.073344175
628708.905992	-126.343455275
640031.796953	-126.504382201
651558.610364	-126.726391628
663293.018816	-126.955121799
675238.761044	-127.163820123
687399.643118	-127.417677169
699779.539652	-127.687496081
712382.395042	-127.883873833
725212.224722	-128.093837902
738273.116442	-128.308911282
751569.231572	-128.519878261
765104.806427	-128.646777726
778884.153618	-128.893694813
792911.663423	-129.062142564
807191.805189	-129.248556561
821729.128755	-129.504464766
836528.265901	-129.745360797
851593.931825	-130.021574434
866930.926644	-130.201030901
882544.136923	-130.266320925
898438.537235	-130.335775354
914619.191741	-130.267771397
931091.255809	-130.274181897
947859.977652	-130.306736152
964930.700003	-130.752094668
982308.861817	-131.124177625
1000000.0	-128.895467391
1018009.75118	-130.875810374
1036343.8535	-132.012616338
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  • 0 in reply to Connor Lewis
    Intellectual 320 points

    Thanks for the response.