• State TI Thinks Resolved
  • Locked Locked
  • Replies 5 replies
  • Answers 2 answers
  • Subscribers 20 subscribers
  • Views 1642 views
  • Users 0 members are here
Support feedback
Options
Options
Related

This thread has been locked.

If you have a related question, please click the "Ask a related question" button in the top right corner. The newly created question will be automatically linked to this question.

Original question:

LMX2595: LMX2595 PHASE NOISE ISSUE

LMX2595: What is best selection for the oscin to achieve minimal phase noise

gang huang
Prodigy 230 points
Part Number: LMX2595
Other Parts Discussed in Thread: PLLATINUMSIM-SW, LMX2594

Hi, 

We need to use LMX2595 to generate multiple frequencies in 4-8GHz. We want minimal integral phase noise. We can measure with Keysight 5052B the band of 1Hz-40MHz, but we care even close in.

I notice the datasheet mentioned you are using Wenzel oscillator 100MHz as reference. But compare on the wenzel page, they have those 10MHz and 5MHz oscillator (501-27520) provide much lower (>20dB) close in phase noise. 

I understand that will limit the PFD frequency much lower then use 100MHz oscin. But I can not estimate how will that affect the overall phase noise from DC to inf.  

And it seems I might need to modify the PLL loop filter design for using the 10MHz or 5MHz oscin. Do you have a design for those filters? Or suggestions?

Do you think if I use the 10MHz or 5MHz Wenzel can lower the integral phase noise?

Thanks,

  • 0
    TI__Mastermind 28011 points

    Gang,

    For the input reference, you want this:

    1.  Low phase noise

    2.  Fast slew rate

    3.  Higher frequency

    So 10 MHz, even a 10 MHz Wenzel is likely not as good phase noise (normalized to frequency) as a 100 MHz Wenzel.  Slew rate will be slower due to lower frequency, and the low frequency forces a lower phase detector frequency.  So I would expect significant degradation from the datasheet plots, even if this was perfectly clean 10 MHz input.

    You can simulate and design all of this with our PLLatinum Sim tool at ti.com/tool/PLLATINUMSIM-SW

    Regards,

    Dean

  • 0 in reply to Dean Banerjee
    Prodigy 230 points

    for 1:

    Can you share the model number of the Wenzel you are using in the test? And can you share the measured phase noise down to1Hz?

    I checked the Wenzel datasheet, it seems the 10MHz ULN are generally 20-30dB quieter than the 100MHz ULN

    For 2 and 3, I can not do much to get it.

    My understanding for the PLL noise is it will follow the Osc at low frequency (close in) range where within the feedback band and will be dominated by the internal vco at the high-frequency range where the loop doesn't do much. 

    Currently using a 100MHz Wenzel we can get the phase noise comparable to the datasheet, which only specified to 100Hz.. But at 1Hz to 100Hz range, the phase noise goes up a lot. which makes the overall measured phase noise increase from tens of fs (100Hz to 10MHz) to several ps (1Hz to 10MHz).

    So it seems the oscillator low-frequency noise is dominating the overall integral phase noise. That is why I want to use a lower noise osc. 

    Again for the Wenzel, the 

    freq          100Hz                 1Hz

    5MHz       -165dBc/Hz.      -115dBc/Hz

    10MHz     -162 dBc/Hz.     -105dBc/Hz

    100MHz   -130 dBc/Hz      not specified

    Regarding normalized to frequency, from 10MHz to 100MHz, a factor of 10, so add 20dB then we still got 12 dB improvement?

  • 0 in reply to gang huang
    TI__Mastermind 28011 points

    Gang,

    The wenzel model number is 100 MHz and part number is:

    Wenzel 501-4623G

    I am also attaching the phase noise profile.  You can also import this to our PLLatinum Sim tool.

    As for measurement of phase noise below 100 MHz, what we find is that this is tough to measure because our wenzel oscillator dominates this.  So if we would extend our measurement below 100 MHz, it would not be a measurement of our device, but rather the Wenzel oscillator.  Thus we truncate the phase noise at 100 Hz and assume that it goes at 10 dB/decade.

    Just to clarify, when we talk about "PLL Noise" we are talking about the noise of our device with a noiseless input reference.  The understanding is that at low offsets and within the loop bandwidth, this the noise of our PLL + Input reference will track the input reference.

    Regards,

    Dean

    Fullscreen 1157.100 MHz Wenzel 501-4623G.txt Download 
    100	-137.8524537
101.8009751	-137.8992682
103.6343854	-137.3426016
105.5008148	-137.385904
107.4008583	-136.842424
109.335121	-136.8824657
111.3042193	-137.6846404
113.3087806	-137.7216588
115.3494436	-136.4056712
117.4268583	-136.4398895
119.5416868	-138.5674836
121.6946029	-138.7751949
123.8862924	-138.809153
126.1174537	-136.5436701
128.3887977	-136.5717734
130.701048	-139.192094
133.0549413	-139.9679253
135.4512277	-139.9929001
137.8906706	-142.6719599
140.3740473	-143.1823123
142.9021489	-143.2045121
145.4757811	-142.2143914
148.0957637	-138.6123867
150.7629316	-138.6321267
153.4781344	-136.560729
156.2422375	-140.6216759
159.0561213	-139.2055194
161.9206824	-139.2224096
164.8368336	-138.720741
167.805504	-141.034432
170.8276394	-141.209088
173.9042027	-141.3196402
177.0361741	-141.503374
180.2245515	-138.6664167
183.4703509	-139.9914953
186.7746062	-141.7124403
190.1383704	-142.8787586
193.5627151	-143.0565817
197.0487315	-143.2240221
200.5975301	-147.3227738
204.2102417	-146.8500893
207.8880174	-145.5261086
211.6320288	-146.0728011
215.443469	-145.2900807
219.3235523	-147.3307789
223.2735149	-146.2071403
227.2946153	-144.4819937
231.3881348	-142.9398046
235.5553775	-142.7386586
239.7976713	-143.4647049
244.1163677	-144.9481308
248.5128427	-144.8693751
252.9884972	-145.1196955
257.544757	-145.1688316
262.183074	-145.1817491
266.904926	-147.9539625
271.7118173	-148.2611015
276.6052795	-145.1922459
281.5868718	-147.9194226
286.6581812	-146.0248177
291.8208238	-141.9798762
297.0764442	-142.5608482
302.426717	-144.4197824
307.873347	-147.1046591
313.4180693	-145.5613477
319.0626508	-145.381531
324.8088897	-143.689732
330.658617	-144.2170927
336.6136964	-146.4140371
342.6760253	-146.4703616
348.8475353	-149.3180422
355.1301926	-145.311761
361.525999	-147.4740912
368.0369923	-146.5387762
374.665247	-146.0114064
381.4128748	-145.5054356
388.2820258	-148.3233393
395.2748885	-151.450274
402.3936909	-153.29948
409.6407011	-149.1022377
417.0182282	-148.6992647
424.5286227	-153.090505
432.1742776	-149.9988315
439.9576288	-150.1799065
447.8811562	-149.6581912
455.9473844	-151.9181173
464.1588834	-148.7013797
472.5182694	-153.072969
481.0282058	-151.0901984
489.6914041	-151.0332441
498.5106245	-151.2570376
507.4886768	-153.2057881
516.6284216	-151.8854035
525.9327709	-151.515451
535.4046892	-151.6445633
545.0471945	-151.7982895
554.8633588	-153.192145
564.8563098	-152.2280341
575.0292314	-149.2416505
585.3853648	-152.5621581
595.9280096	-153.8019022
606.6605248	-152.8866209
617.5863299	-152.9538812
628.708906	-151.6480723
640.031797	-153.1317686
651.5586104	-153.2729177
663.2930188	-154.4795465
675.238761	-155.1645858
687.3996431	-156.2924817
699.7795397	-154.5425356
712.382395	-154.1861151
725.2122247	-154.4140599
738.2731164	-152.8183598
751.5692316	-155.6597202
765.1048064	-152.9576201
778.8841536	-154.4939407
792.9116634	-155.5374858
807.1918052	-157.4696209
821.7291288	-153.5248082
836.5282659	-159.5017454
851.5939318	-154.3210277
866.9309266	-155.0245848
882.5441369	-152.0980113
898.4385372	-152.6192466
914.6191917	-152.2410076
931.0912558	-154.5249772
947.8599777	-158.4137783
964.9307	-155.663767
982.3088618	-155.6340949
1000	-157.2486947
1018.009751	-156.0594829
1036.343854	-155.6886807
1055.008148	-153.3746483
1074.008583	-156.2439014
1093.35121	-154.7050021
1113.042193	-158.2902283
1133.087806	-158.0097788
1153.494436	-158.3087275
1174.268583	-156.8465076
1195.416868	-155.6257909
1216.946029	-158.0959909
1238.862924	-157.9448176
1261.174537	-158.2474333
1283.887977	-157.3526361
1307.01048	-157.9886868
1330.549413	-158.8658716
1354.512277	-160.9928731
1378.906706	-157.0803825
1403.740473	-162.213173
1429.021489	-158.3551139
1454.757811	-159.391963
1480.957637	-160.2646632
1507.629316	-157.6068662
1534.781344	-159.8210664
1562.422375	-159.512021
1590.561213	-159.7119718
1619.206824	-160.0839759
1648.368336	-157.7309921
1678.05504	-160.6468879
1708.276394	-160.3411706
1739.042027	-161.1580195
1770.361741	-162.1044417
1802.245515	-161.5188633
1834.703509	-161.4943212
1867.746062	-159.7020589
1901.383704	-160.5858172
1935.627151	-161.4468517
1970.487315	-159.2654695
2005.975301	-160.6655006
2042.102417	-158.949612
2078.880174	-160.5877005
2116.320288	-160.9906314
2154.43469	-159.3551751
2193.235523	-160.2724937
2232.735149	-160.0796857
2272.946153	-161.0610351
2313.881348	-161.6753493
2355.553775	-160.6420156
2397.976713	-161.432412
2441.163677	-160.334978
2485.128427	-161.4877766
2529.884972	-161.9709806
2575.44757	-160.8082343
2621.83074	-160.3789833
2669.04926	-161.7247656
2717.118173	-161.3186798
2766.052795	-161.0059243
2815.868718	-162.5107034
2866.581812	-160.1708421
2918.208238	-160.7840016
2970.764442	-161.8757629
3024.26717	-160.6046149
3078.73347	-160.9059018
3134.180693	-162.6448201
3190.626508	-162.8823862
3248.088897	-161.350625
3306.58617	-161.573322
3366.136964	-162.3846326
3426.760253	-162.1459585
3488.475353	-162.1683777
3551.301926	-161.7402896
3615.25999	-161.9454149
3680.369923	-161.5565565
3746.65247	-162.0254695
3814.128748	-160.9432636
3882.820258	-160.724425
3952.748885	-163.2357749
4023.936909	-161.1807209
4096.407011	-163.965115
4170.182282	-162.1959797
4245.286227	-160.0102769
4321.742776	-161.5845675
4399.576288	-162.913012
4478.811562	-162.2834883
4559.473844	-162.8176915
4641.588834	-161.8600597
4725.182694	-160.765818
4810.282058	-161.4665292
4896.914041	-161.1295533
4985.106245	-161.5056677
5074.886768	-161.7271199
5166.284216	-161.1539879
5259.327709	-161.5498316
5354.046892	-162.8873787
5450.471945	-163.2248621
5548.633588	-161.2111258
5648.563098	-161.9027911
5750.292314	-160.4883916
5853.853648	-161.064221
5959.280096	-162.3405633
6066.605248	-160.2661991
6175.863299	-162.3986809
6287.08906	-160.3820972
6400.31797	-163.3628195
6515.586104	-162.9897263
6632.930188	-162.7826963
6752.38761	-162.7906237
6873.996431	-162.1238067
6997.795397	-159.9424668
7123.82395	-162.1341596
7252.122247	-161.3497902
7382.731164	-161.7964114
7515.692316	-161.0447031
7651.048064	-161.4738973
7788.841536	-161.4582342
7929.116634	-161.9973892
8071.918052	-161.9261587
8217.291288	-161.9035139
8365.282659	-161.5098027
8515.939318	-161.6787696
8669.309266	-163.9846549
8825.441369	-162.5636239
8984.385372	-161.4323287
9146.191917	-163.0241983
9310.912558	-162.2935458
9478.599777	-162.7343983
9649.307	-161.2868552
9823.088618	-162.9962368
10000	-160.2667438
10180.09751	-161.9615686
10363.43854	-162.0367474
10550.08148	-160.3216868
10740.08583	-164.3862141
10933.5121	-161.5718766
11130.42193	-161.443985
11330.87806	-161.5358625
11534.94436	-161.7703865
11742.68583	-160.8983236
11954.16868	-162.6025896
12169.46029	-160.4023453
12388.62924	-164.137756
12611.74537	-165.379528
12838.87977	-163.5956685
13070.1048	-162.2448727
13305.49413	-162.7643937
13545.12277	-161.9323755
13789.06706	-163.1033658
14037.40473	-161.9375793
14290.21489	-161.8344954
14547.57811	-161.4682056
14809.57637	-163.641841
15076.29316	-161.2772181
15347.81344	-161.8367254
15624.22375	-163.8937368
15905.61213	-163.4045052
16192.06824	-162.1718921
16483.68336	-163.7274981
16780.5504	-162.6159688
17082.76394	-162.5689069
17390.42027	-163.4016453
17703.61741	-164.2673521
18022.45515	-164.0711845
18347.03509	-163.6379345
18677.46062	-164.6454305
19013.83704	-164.1375393
19356.27151	-162.2678618
19704.87315	-164.3286256
20059.75301	-163.5123327
20421.02417	-163.5551414
20788.80174	-162.5823153
21163.20288	-163.2599052
21544.3469	-163.0973224
21932.35523	-161.8897037
22327.35149	-164.902143
22729.46153	-164.157658
23138.81348	-162.8473325
23555.53775	-164.3067746
23979.76713	-163.7059091
24411.63677	-163.9764216
24851.28427	-163.0963655
25298.84972	-161.760677
25754.4757	-162.1083328
26218.3074	-161.2068699
26690.4926	-162.4843046
27171.18173	-162.8479923
27660.52795	-161.8300854
28158.68718	-161.8427446
28665.81812	-162.1406767
29182.08238	-161.1623182
29707.64442	-161.6564092
30242.6717	-162.1655339
30787.3347	-162.0582672
31341.80693	-162.7340918
31906.26508	-164.2809079
32480.88897	-162.659681
33065.8617	-162.4699644
33661.36964	-162.654158
34267.60253	-163.8891935
34884.75353	-164.9974573
35513.01926	-164.5735966
36152.5999	-163.630424
36803.69923	-165.2187081
37466.5247	-165.042907
38141.28748	-164.5660422
38828.20258	-163.7749291
39527.48885	-164.8111397
40239.36909	-165.0767971
40964.07011	-164.9910649
41701.82282	-164.4000895
42452.86227	-167.5546349
43217.42776	-165.9000342
43995.76288	-165.0294028
44788.11562	-164.9204892
45594.73844	-164.5301561
46415.88834	-167.0607835
47251.82694	-167.8572846
48102.82058	-166.133447
48969.14041	-164.2463501
49851.06245	-165.7078557
50748.86768	-165.9278901
51662.84216	-166.3563965
52593.27709	-166.9150938
53540.46892	-166.9672198
54504.71945	-168.7749781
55486.33588	-167.5086669
56485.63098	-167.5884416
57502.92314	-165.3553111
58538.53648	-165.6251086
59592.80096	-166.868997
60666.05248	-167.3124287
61758.63299	-166.7304423
62870.8906	-167.2202427
64003.1797	-168.2582305
65155.86104	-168.1864497
66329.30188	-169.0592121
67523.8761	-168.1372196
68739.96431	-170.1831888
69977.95397	-169.3662685
71238.2395	-166.7687762
72521.22247	-169.5970032
73827.31164	-167.0563767
75156.92316	-169.0534012
76510.48064	-169.8821676
77888.41536	-168.7420031
79291.16634	-168.4972862
80719.18052	-170.0837521
82172.91288	-169.7227838
83652.82659	-171.3725896
85159.39318	-171.2542111
86693.09266	-168.2915231
88254.41369	-170.4370879
89843.85372	-169.5320001
91461.91917	-169.4377285
93109.12558	-172.6394491
94785.99777	-170.4591872
96493.07	-170.5637155
98230.88618	-170.8296781
100000	-172.3911459
101800.9751	-172.3684401
103634.3854	-172.8840901
105500.8148	-173.6802282
107400.8583	-172.4515294
109335.121	-171.8523204
111304.2193	-173.8805117
113308.7806	-172.9526573
115349.4436	-174.6552627
117426.8583	-173.4780313
119541.6868	-173.4991765
121694.6029	-173.2980704
123886.2924	-173.9761937
126117.4537	-174.0980453
128388.7977	-174.8660948
130701.048	-174.4564286
133054.9413	-175.4761949
135451.2277	-174.4990728
137890.6706	-173.0613005
140374.0473	-174.8474831
142902.1489	-174.2102321
145475.7811	-174.6833429
148095.7637	-176.6938002
150762.9316	-175.4429741
153478.1344	-175.5404007
156242.2375	-175.3216906
159056.1213	-175.7487216
161920.6824	-174.4688443
164836.8336	-175.302814
167805.504	-174.128723
170827.6394	-178.2797139
173904.2027	-177.9338053
177036.1741	-176.3921171
180224.5515	-174.7857884
183470.3509	-176.7246992
186774.6062	-176.2900354
190138.3704	-176.5022184
193562.7151	-175.0917855
197048.7315	-177.8902165
200597.5301	-175.6687035
204210.2417	-177.7699929
207888.0174	-176.5879916
211632.0288	-176.5505092
215443.469	-176.8175345
219323.5523	-179.6176346
223273.5149	-177.0291822
227294.6153	-176.2871382
231388.1348	-177.3244914
235555.3775	-178.6914469
239797.6713	-177.8722391
244116.3677	-176.5688431
248512.8427	-177.5201603
252988.4972	-177.1221382
257544.757	-177.8219384
262183.074	-178.3294004
266904.926	-177.1240433
271711.8173	-176.8194049
276605.2795	-176.718615
281586.8718	-177.2307137
286658.1812	-177.3320602
291820.8238	-177.6704566
297076.4442	-177.9048479
302426.717	-176.7551508
307873.347	-176.2808087
313418.0693	-177.6213657
319062.6508	-178.6044237
324808.8897	-178.598386
330658.617	-178.3302491
336613.6964	-176.4956511
342676.0253	-177.7329427
348847.5353	-177.0590373
355130.1926	-176.7247127
361525.999	-177.1323263
368036.9923	-177.9663858
374665.247	-178.2362896
381412.8748	-178.7497444
388282.0258	-177.5059476
395274.8885	-176.7173149
402393.6909	-178.5856671
409640.7011	-178.0978389
417018.2282	-177.5040994
424528.6227	-178.5906164
432174.2776	-177.3952862
439957.6288	-177.2366201
447881.1562	-177.5794798
455947.3844	-177.2784523
464158.8834	-177.3011132
472518.2694	-178.5559375
481028.2058	-176.9236468
489691.4041	-178.3025488
498510.6245	-177.7404116
507488.6768	-177.7686413
516628.4216	-176.5916527
525932.7709	-179.2532624
535404.6892	-177.3326368
545047.1945	-177.7317429
554863.3588	-177.7539169
564856.3098	-177.8276139
575029.2314	-178.4220543
585385.3648	-177.3586582
595928.0096	-178.1002521
606660.5248	-178.0969233
617586.3299	-178.262084
628708.906	-177.8004081
640031.797	-177.6790916
651558.6104	-176.8574393
663293.0188	-177.2222502
675238.761	-179.2332472
687399.6431	-179.243461
699779.5397	-178.061637
712382.395	-178.7304443
725212.2247	-177.2538042
738273.1164	-178.4883595
751569.2316	-178.6105632
765104.8064	-178.1773136
778884.1536	-178.9574942
792911.6634	-179.3209282
807191.8052	-178.1027059
821729.1288	-178.6871373
836528.2659	-177.590186
851593.9318	-177.906996
866930.9266	-177.6852401
882544.1369	-177.0598255
898438.5372	-178.0341968
914619.1917	-178.0441433
931091.2558	-178.0671554
947859.9777	-178.0143154
964930.7	-177.9904798
982308.8618	-178.0109589
1000000	-177.9763228
1018009.751	-176.7010187
1036343.854	-177.3871434
1055008.148	-177.8625871
1074008.583	-178.5398885
1093351.21	-178.8194408
1113042.193	-178.6605678
1133087.806	-177.8478528
1153494.436	-178.8203805
1174268.583	-178.5327674
1195416.868	-177.9597793
1216946.029	-178.4547136
1238862.924	-178.5615216
1261174.537	-177.8617004
1283887.977	-177.4422108
1307010.48	-178.3632721
1330549.413	-177.3248485
1354512.277	-178.1973328
1378906.706	-177.50818
1403740.473	-178.0978626
1429021.489	-177.9278085
1454757.811	-177.6439264
1480957.637	-177.2701749
1507629.316	-177.5936916
1534781.344	-177.5310324
1562422.375	-177.3846614
1590561.213	-177.5955432
1619206.824	-177.638341
1648368.336	-177.6911553
1678055.04	-177.7267788
1708276.394	-177.6251804
1739042.027	-177.9355698
1770361.741	-177.0981794
1802245.515	-178.3313511
1834703.509	-179.0529418
1867746.062	-178.1594715
1901383.704	-178.8389118
1935627.151	-176.8108294
1970487.315	-178.2157909
2005975.301	-177.0124745
2042102.417	-177.830909
2078880.174	-177.4575888
2116320.288	-178.4654758
2154434.69	-178.4412811
2193235.523	-178.9133634
2232735.149	-178.028219
2272946.153	-177.886351
2313881.348	-178.0861831
2355553.775	-178.1352395
2397976.713	-178.372332
2441163.677	-178.2255784
2485128.427	-177.7306919
2529884.972	-178.8076653
2575447.57	-178.166988
2621830.74	-177.927233
2669049.26	-178.2230023
2717118.173	-179.1575662
2766052.795	-178.8989159
2815868.718	-178.959569
2866581.812	-180.0264247
2918208.238	-178.8612925
2970764.442	-178.0855069
3024267.17	-177.2242176
3078733.47	-178.2214124
3134180.693	-178.0642682
3190626.508	-178.1843878
3248088.897	-177.3588272
3306586.17	-177.8909391
3366136.964	-178.791884
3426760.253	-178.1906575
3488475.353	-177.8231935
3551301.926	-178.8260293
3615259.99	-178.7598172
3680369.923	-178.2763269
3746652.47	-177.7283941
3814128.748	-179.5781511
3882820.258	-178.347414
3952748.885	-179.9054758
4023936.909	-179.1338198
4096407.011	-178.7833628
4170182.282	-179.3622975
4245286.227	-178.8263734
4321742.776	-178.8989878
4399576.288	-178.4614976
4478811.562	-178.1597518
4559473.844	-178.4418995
4641588.834	-179.4470798
4725182.694	-178.9177633
4810282.058	-179.0405744
4896914.041	-179.1764718
4985106.245	-178.2605249
5074886.768	-179.7396678
5166284.216	-178.6319581
5259327.709	-178.8937385
5354046.892	-178.3591924
5450471.945	-178.6762707
5548633.588	-178.5821112
5648563.098	-178.6295827
5750292.314	-178.5808607
5853853.648	-178.4224774
5959280.096	-178.6448111
6066605.248	-178.7028264
6175863.299	-179.6411258
6287089.06	-179.6610537
6400317.97	-178.8135835
6515586.104	-178.8065039
6632930.188	-178.7549644
6752387.61	-178.75022
6873996.431	-178.6669562
6997795.397	-178.6620508
7123823.95	-178.2499248
7252122.247	-178.2423552
7382731.164	-178.4792906
7515692.316	-180.4443646
7651048.064	-180.434852
7788841.536	-180.5224834
7929116.634	-180.5126705
8071918.052	-179.6612489
8217291.288	-179.6539848
8365282.659	-179.3242751
8515939.318	-179.8391833
8669309.266	-179.8315592
8825441.369	-180.1234062
8984385.372	-180.5457357
9146191.917	-180.5385186
9310912.558	-180.1786526
9478599.777	-180.1736163
9649307	-180.1925751
9823088.618	-180.2319298
10000000	-178.7616094
10180097.51	-180.0382386
10363438.54	-180.0339465
10550081.48	-180.026701
10740085.83	-180.4081881
10933512.1	-181.1943714
11130421.93	-181.1897805
11330878.06	-181.1857524
11534944.36	-180.9108056
11742685.83	-180.4876974
11954168.68	-180.1684955
12169460.29	-180.4473958
12388629.24	-180.7171801
12611745.37	-179.7531169
12838879.77	-179.759049
13070104.8	-179.9533391
13305494.13	-179.9525351
13545122.77	-179.9247884
13789067.06	-180.4851806
14037404.73	-180.1693285
14290214.89	-180.1244411
14547578.11	-180.200438
14809576.37	-179.8197475
15076293.16	-179.9394554
15347813.44	-180.0776884
15624223.75	-180.6077376
15905612.13	-180.7726875
16192068.24	-179.9038925
16483683.36	-179.7123445
16780550.4	-180.579359
17082763.94	-179.5450625
17390420.27	-179.2836015
17703617.41	-179.6459067
18022455.15	-179.5450452
18347035.09	-179.9089948
18677460.62	-180.8619536
19013837.04	-181.1759086
19356271.51	-181.1583213
19704873.15	-180.3107603
20059753.01	-180.9120367
20421024.17	-181.7024165
20788801.74	-181.1326702
21163202.88	-183.0905137
21544346.9	-182.4744139
21932355.23	-181.6588895
22327351.49	-181.8766273
22729461.53	-182.5580954
23138813.48	-183.0456453
23555537.75	-182.6963938
23979767.13	-182.9081136
24411636.77	-184.5531559
24851284.27	-183.7159157
25298849.72	-183.3049917
25754475.7	-183.5796125
26218307.4	-182.871161
26690492.6	-183.8441367
27171181.73	-183.1347682
27660527.95	-184.1961631
28158687.18	-183.0577893
28665818.12	-184.7568757
29182082.38	-185.1869512
29707644.42	-184.8891509
30242671.7	-184.2775759
30787334.7	-184.7405515
31341806.93	-184.6508166
31906265.08	-186.2638469
32480888.97	-182.8911007
33065861.7	-184.4662864
33661369.64	-184.5073924
34267602.53	-184.1230687
34884753.53	-183.9261174
35513019.26	-184.0059435
36152599.9	-185.5307545
36803699.23	-183.3174704
37466524.7	-185.1832052
38141287.48	-184.458181
38828202.58	-184.6781107
39527488.85	-184.6846632
40000000	-185.0593892

  • 0 in reply to Dean Banerjee
    Prodigy 230 points

    Thank you for the data. I will play with that in the simulation.

    I agree under 100Hz you are really measuring the Wenzel oscillator and that is why I am looking for a more quieter oscillator. At least from the datasheet, their 10MHz oscillator is quieter than the 100MHz at low frequency (good) and have similar noise floor (not so good). At mid-high frequency, I understand the PLL Noise will be dominating and at low frequency, the oscillator phase noise is dominating. 

    Between those two sides, I think there must have an overall optimized solution for the full band phase noise. Wenzel does have 80MHz, 50MHz 10MHz oscillator with different performance.

    And my question is how to get the overall low phase noise signal, that might beyond the Ti product itself, but will be a good reference for the user to use. 

  • 0 in reply to gang huang
    TI__Mastermind 28011 points

    Gang,

    You say that the 10 MHz signal is quieter than the 100 MHz, but is this normalized to frequency with 20*log(f)?

    In other words, the 10 MHz signal would have to be more than 20 dB better than the 100 MHz input signal to be considered better as the phase noise of hte oscillator gets multiplied up.

    From the wenzel oscillators I looked at, I thought that the 100 Mhz had better normalized phase noise.

    Also, the LMX2594 likes fast oscin slew rate.  So even if the 100 MHz oscillator was a few dB worse normalized phase noise, it still might be better because higher frequency signals have a faster slew rate.

    Regards,

    Dean