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LMX2594EVM: LMX2594EVM Phase noise

SIDDHARTH MOHAN
Genius 3205 points

Part Number: LMX2594EVM
Other Parts Discussed in Thread: LMX2594

Hi All, 

 I'm checking the possibility of an external clock source (instead of XTAL) for feeding the clock to our test board

I wish to request some information on LMX EVM 
 
  1. Does the EVM include clock source, power, SPI programming?
  2. Do we need anything non-standard for using this  ?
  3. How much is the amplitude of output (we need 1.8Vp-p for our clock-in)
  4. Any specific points to be taken care with Single-ended Vs Differential clock in input or output ?
  5. Does the EVM output expect 50Ohm termination on board?
  6. What is the frequency output programmable range from the module (we need 20M to 1G output)?

regards 

  • 0
    TI__Genius 12705 points

    Hello,

    There is a REFERENCE PRO provided in the kit for clock source and programming as shown in figure 1.  You will need external power supply.

    1.8Vpp output can be provided with an inductor pullup although for higher frequencies the specification is usually in terms of dBm.

    The EVM is expecting external load of 50 ohms on the RF outputs. If not using the complimentary output it is recommended also to terminate the unused port with 50 ohms.

    The EVM output frequency range is compatible with the device 10 MHz to 15 GHz.

    The connections are standard SMA type

    Regards,

  • 0 in reply to Liam Keese
    Genius 3205 points

    Thanks for the reply Liam, 

    for 1.8v output what is the typical inductor value that you suggest as as pullup?

  • 0 in reply to Liam Keese
    Genius 3205 points

    Thanks for the reply Liam, 

    1. Can I assume the reference pro board comes along by-default with the clock module if I purchase it from the below link ?

    https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/texas-instruments/LMX2594EVM/296-46575-ND/7056941

    2. The serial connector cable between Pro and EVM also comes along  with LMX2594EVM ?

    3. Can you please suggest an exact part no for 100M Wenzel Oscillator that is suggested to be used in the TI document ?

    4. For 1.8v output what is the typical inductor value that you suggest as as pullup?

    regards 

  • 0 in reply to SIDDHARTH MOHAN
    TI__Guru** 120270 points

    Hi Siddharth,

    The box includes the LMX EVM, a Ref Pro board, a ribbon cable and a USB cable.

    The Wenzel clock is 501-4623G.

    1.8Vpp = 9.08dBm. From Figure 18 of the datasheet, you may not be able to get this voltage swing across all frequencies. Maybe you should consider to add an amplifier after LMX2594 in order to ensure that you can get sufficient signal swing to drive the next stage.

  • 0 in reply to Noel Fung
    Genius 3205 points

    Thanks a ton ! for the reply Noel. 

    1. The 3.3V supply is fed-in through SMA, is there any alternate way to feed the supply ?

    2. For 1.8v output what is the typical inductor value that you suggest as as pullup?

  • 0 in reply to SIDDHARTH MOHAN
    TI__Guru** 120270 points

    Hi Siddharth,

    1. you can solder wires to the pads of the Vcc SMA connector. 

    2. We used 1nH inductor when taking data for Figure 18.

  • 0 in reply to Noel Fung
    Genius 3205 points

    Thanks for the reply Noel,

    The required frequency range is 100 to 200 Mhz , I hope in this range the EVM can give 9.08dBm (1.8Vpp) swing ?

  • 0 in reply to SIDDHARTH MOHAN
    TI__Guru** 120270 points

    Hi Siddharth,

    Unfortunately, at 100MHz to 200MHz, the output voltage swing will drop to below around 1Vpp. 

    Are these the only frequencies you want? Will you consider clock generator instead of RF synthesizer? 

    This is the portfolio our clock generator. You can pick those clock generators with CMOS output to ensure you have greater than 1.8Vpp voltage swing.

    https://www.ti.com/clocks-timing/generators/overview.html

  • 0 in reply to Noel Fung
    Genius 3205 points

    thanks for the reply Noel. I asked this range because I wasn’t able to figure that out from the plot , is this 1Vpp for 100-200Mhz mentioned somewhere?

    We wish to be able to have a reference which is programmable especially for testing PLL locking.

    The Wenzel part no. also doesn't appear to be available on digikey etc.. ?

  • 0 in reply to SIDDHARTH MOHAN
    TI__Guru** 120270 points

    Hi Siddharth,

    very often, we test the output at 100MHz, so we know the voltage swing. It is not mentioned in the datasheet.

    We have been using the Wenzel clock for many years, maybe it is already discontinued. 

    Here is the phase noise of the wenzel clock, FYI.

    Fullscreen 3487.1157.100 MHz Wenzel 501-4623G.txt Download 
    100	-137.8524537
101.8009751	-137.8992682
103.6343854	-137.3426016
105.5008148	-137.385904
107.4008583	-136.842424
109.335121	-136.8824657
111.3042193	-137.6846404
113.3087806	-137.7216588
115.3494436	-136.4056712
117.4268583	-136.4398895
119.5416868	-138.5674836
121.6946029	-138.7751949
123.8862924	-138.809153
126.1174537	-136.5436701
128.3887977	-136.5717734
130.701048	-139.192094
133.0549413	-139.9679253
135.4512277	-139.9929001
137.8906706	-142.6719599
140.3740473	-143.1823123
142.9021489	-143.2045121
145.4757811	-142.2143914
148.0957637	-138.6123867
150.7629316	-138.6321267
153.4781344	-136.560729
156.2422375	-140.6216759
159.0561213	-139.2055194
161.9206824	-139.2224096
164.8368336	-138.720741
167.805504	-141.034432
170.8276394	-141.209088
173.9042027	-141.3196402
177.0361741	-141.503374
180.2245515	-138.6664167
183.4703509	-139.9914953
186.7746062	-141.7124403
190.1383704	-142.8787586
193.5627151	-143.0565817
197.0487315	-143.2240221
200.5975301	-147.3227738
204.2102417	-146.8500893
207.8880174	-145.5261086
211.6320288	-146.0728011
215.443469	-145.2900807
219.3235523	-147.3307789
223.2735149	-146.2071403
227.2946153	-144.4819937
231.3881348	-142.9398046
235.5553775	-142.7386586
239.7976713	-143.4647049
244.1163677	-144.9481308
248.5128427	-144.8693751
252.9884972	-145.1196955
257.544757	-145.1688316
262.183074	-145.1817491
266.904926	-147.9539625
271.7118173	-148.2611015
276.6052795	-145.1922459
281.5868718	-147.9194226
286.6581812	-146.0248177
291.8208238	-141.9798762
297.0764442	-142.5608482
302.426717	-144.4197824
307.873347	-147.1046591
313.4180693	-145.5613477
319.0626508	-145.381531
324.8088897	-143.689732
330.658617	-144.2170927
336.6136964	-146.4140371
342.6760253	-146.4703616
348.8475353	-149.3180422
355.1301926	-145.311761
361.525999	-147.4740912
368.0369923	-146.5387762
374.665247	-146.0114064
381.4128748	-145.5054356
388.2820258	-148.3233393
395.2748885	-151.450274
402.3936909	-153.29948
409.6407011	-149.1022377
417.0182282	-148.6992647
424.5286227	-153.090505
432.1742776	-149.9988315
439.9576288	-150.1799065
447.8811562	-149.6581912
455.9473844	-151.9181173
464.1588834	-148.7013797
472.5182694	-153.072969
481.0282058	-151.0901984
489.6914041	-151.0332441
498.5106245	-151.2570376
507.4886768	-153.2057881
516.6284216	-151.8854035
525.9327709	-151.515451
535.4046892	-151.6445633
545.0471945	-151.7982895
554.8633588	-153.192145
564.8563098	-152.2280341
575.0292314	-149.2416505
585.3853648	-152.5621581
595.9280096	-153.8019022
606.6605248	-152.8866209
617.5863299	-152.9538812
628.708906	-151.6480723
640.031797	-153.1317686
651.5586104	-153.2729177
663.2930188	-154.4795465
675.238761	-155.1645858
687.3996431	-156.2924817
699.7795397	-154.5425356
712.382395	-154.1861151
725.2122247	-154.4140599
738.2731164	-152.8183598
751.5692316	-155.6597202
765.1048064	-152.9576201
778.8841536	-154.4939407
792.9116634	-155.5374858
807.1918052	-157.4696209
821.7291288	-153.5248082
836.5282659	-159.5017454
851.5939318	-154.3210277
866.9309266	-155.0245848
882.5441369	-152.0980113
898.4385372	-152.6192466
914.6191917	-152.2410076
931.0912558	-154.5249772
947.8599777	-158.4137783
964.9307	-155.663767
982.3088618	-155.6340949
1000	-157.2486947
1018.009751	-156.0594829
1036.343854	-155.6886807
1055.008148	-153.3746483
1074.008583	-156.2439014
1093.35121	-154.7050021
1113.042193	-158.2902283
1133.087806	-158.0097788
1153.494436	-158.3087275
1174.268583	-156.8465076
1195.416868	-155.6257909
1216.946029	-158.0959909
1238.862924	-157.9448176
1261.174537	-158.2474333
1283.887977	-157.3526361
1307.01048	-157.9886868
1330.549413	-158.8658716
1354.512277	-160.9928731
1378.906706	-157.0803825
1403.740473	-162.213173
1429.021489	-158.3551139
1454.757811	-159.391963
1480.957637	-160.2646632
1507.629316	-157.6068662
1534.781344	-159.8210664
1562.422375	-159.512021
1590.561213	-159.7119718
1619.206824	-160.0839759
1648.368336	-157.7309921
1678.05504	-160.6468879
1708.276394	-160.3411706
1739.042027	-161.1580195
1770.361741	-162.1044417
1802.245515	-161.5188633
1834.703509	-161.4943212
1867.746062	-159.7020589
1901.383704	-160.5858172
1935.627151	-161.4468517
1970.487315	-159.2654695
2005.975301	-160.6655006
2042.102417	-158.949612
2078.880174	-160.5877005
2116.320288	-160.9906314
2154.43469	-159.3551751
2193.235523	-160.2724937
2232.735149	-160.0796857
2272.946153	-161.0610351
2313.881348	-161.6753493
2355.553775	-160.6420156
2397.976713	-161.432412
2441.163677	-160.334978
2485.128427	-161.4877766
2529.884972	-161.9709806
2575.44757	-160.8082343
2621.83074	-160.3789833
2669.04926	-161.7247656
2717.118173	-161.3186798
2766.052795	-161.0059243
2815.868718	-162.5107034
2866.581812	-160.1708421
2918.208238	-160.7840016
2970.764442	-161.8757629
3024.26717	-160.6046149
3078.73347	-160.9059018
3134.180693	-162.6448201
3190.626508	-162.8823862
3248.088897	-161.350625
3306.58617	-161.573322
3366.136964	-162.3846326
3426.760253	-162.1459585
3488.475353	-162.1683777
3551.301926	-161.7402896
3615.25999	-161.9454149
3680.369923	-161.5565565
3746.65247	-162.0254695
3814.128748	-160.9432636
3882.820258	-160.724425
3952.748885	-163.2357749
4023.936909	-161.1807209
4096.407011	-163.965115
4170.182282	-162.1959797
4245.286227	-160.0102769
4321.742776	-161.5845675
4399.576288	-162.913012
4478.811562	-162.2834883
4559.473844	-162.8176915
4641.588834	-161.8600597
4725.182694	-160.765818
4810.282058	-161.4665292
4896.914041	-161.1295533
4985.106245	-161.5056677
5074.886768	-161.7271199
5166.284216	-161.1539879
5259.327709	-161.5498316
5354.046892	-162.8873787
5450.471945	-163.2248621
5548.633588	-161.2111258
5648.563098	-161.9027911
5750.292314	-160.4883916
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5959.280096	-162.3405633
6066.605248	-160.2661991
6175.863299	-162.3986809
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6400.31797	-163.3628195
6515.586104	-162.9897263
6632.930188	-162.7826963
6752.38761	-162.7906237
6873.996431	-162.1238067
6997.795397	-159.9424668
7123.82395	-162.1341596
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7382.731164	-161.7964114
7515.692316	-161.0447031
7651.048064	-161.4738973
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7929.116634	-161.9973892
8071.918052	-161.9261587
8217.291288	-161.9035139
8365.282659	-161.5098027
8515.939318	-161.6787696
8669.309266	-163.9846549
8825.441369	-162.5636239
8984.385372	-161.4323287
9146.191917	-163.0241983
9310.912558	-162.2935458
9478.599777	-162.7343983
9649.307	-161.2868552
9823.088618	-162.9962368
10000	-160.2667438
10180.09751	-161.9615686
10363.43854	-162.0367474
10550.08148	-160.3216868
10740.08583	-164.3862141
10933.5121	-161.5718766
11130.42193	-161.443985
11330.87806	-161.5358625
11534.94436	-161.7703865
11742.68583	-160.8983236
11954.16868	-162.6025896
12169.46029	-160.4023453
12388.62924	-164.137756
12611.74537	-165.379528
12838.87977	-163.5956685
13070.1048	-162.2448727
13305.49413	-162.7643937
13545.12277	-161.9323755
13789.06706	-163.1033658
14037.40473	-161.9375793
14290.21489	-161.8344954
14547.57811	-161.4682056
14809.57637	-163.641841
15076.29316	-161.2772181
15347.81344	-161.8367254
15624.22375	-163.8937368
15905.61213	-163.4045052
16192.06824	-162.1718921
16483.68336	-163.7274981
16780.5504	-162.6159688
17082.76394	-162.5689069
17390.42027	-163.4016453
17703.61741	-164.2673521
18022.45515	-164.0711845
18347.03509	-163.6379345
18677.46062	-164.6454305
19013.83704	-164.1375393
19356.27151	-162.2678618
19704.87315	-164.3286256
20059.75301	-163.5123327
20421.02417	-163.5551414
20788.80174	-162.5823153
21163.20288	-163.2599052
21544.3469	-163.0973224
21932.35523	-161.8897037
22327.35149	-164.902143
22729.46153	-164.157658
23138.81348	-162.8473325
23555.53775	-164.3067746
23979.76713	-163.7059091
24411.63677	-163.9764216
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25298.84972	-161.760677
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239797.6713	-177.8722391
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  • 0 in reply to Noel Fung
    Genius 3205 points

    thanks for the reply Noel, 

    We intend to operate it in 20M - 1G region, in this region do you expect the output amplitude to go below 1vpp ?

  • 0 in reply to SIDDHARTH MOHAN
    TI__Guru** 120270 points

    I am guessing this may be possible, I don't have the power sweep data at low frequencies.

    I think you'd better reserve a buffer stage after LMX2594 in order to ensure you have sufficient voltage swing.

  • 0 in reply to Noel Fung
    Genius 3205 points

    Ok Thanks Noel, 

    Just wish to confirm once more, the 10 pin ribbon cable for connecting the Pro board and LMX2594 would also be part of the aval kit purchased from digikey/mouser right ?

    I hope I don't have to procure that separately ?

    regards 

  • 0 in reply to SIDDHARTH MOHAN
    TI__Guru** 120270 points

    correct, the box comes with the ribbon cable.

  • 0 in reply to Noel Fung
    Genius 3205 points

    Thanks Noel,

    Can you please suggest an suitable buffer that can be used at the output of LMX if operating at low frequency range for getting 1.8vpp ?

  • 0 in reply to SIDDHARTH MOHAN
    TI__Guru** 120270 points

    Hi Siddharth,

    Unfortunately, we don't have any buffer that can support 1GHz with 1.8Vpp output.