This thread has been locked.

If you have a related question, please click the "Ask a related question" button in the top right corner. The newly created question will be automatically linked to this question.

LMK04828: LMK04828 Zero Delay Feedback

Part Number: LMK04828
Other Parts Discussed in Thread: LMK04832

We are developing Zynq RFSoC based board for 64CH ADC sampling. For the same, we are using 4 RFSoC boards each with LMK04828 CLK synthesizer.

The CLKIN for all the LMKs is from single oscillator source.

Since we need to sample all ADC channels with as less as possible phase delay, so could you let us know how to SYNC multiple LMK04828

  • Hello Shekhar,

    Please take a look at the app note Multi-ClockSynchronization (snaa294, https://www.ti.com/lit/an/snaa294/snaa294.pdf).

    The simplest method would be to have one LMK04828 that drives many LMK04828.  These down-stream LMK04828 would all be in ZDM mode.

    73,
    Timothy

  • Hi Timothy,

    One simple question. If LMK guarantees very less phase delay between input and output clock [In ZDM Dual Loop]

    So why cannot we use individual 4 LMK's on each board and supply them with single source OCXO clock [with power divider] and expect all the clock output of each LMK to be in phase with input. 

  • Hello Shekhar,

    You can do as you've suggested.  However...

    * To align the SYSREF, you should use the SYSREF frequency as reference and feed the SYSREF back for ZDM.

    * If you don't use SYSREF frequency as reference and use ZDM at the SYSREF frequency, that's ok.  Then use CLKin0 for SYSREF input and setup the LMK04828 for re-clocking the input through the D flip-flop.  Provide a SYSREF at the frequency desired to CLKin0.  Timing should nominally be that rising SYSREF edge at falling CLKin1 edge.

    ---

    Also, please consider the LMK04832 which is pin to pin with LMK04828 but has some improved specifications.

    73,
    Timothy

  • Hi Timothy,

    If my above scheme would give me all LMK outputs in phase with input reference clock, then why do we need to have Master LMK and Slave LMK concept

    as suggested

    I do not want to use CLKin0 pin.

    For the above suggested points, could you please provide brief block diagram ?

  • Hello Shekhar,

    The Master LMK and Slave LMK is not required. You can carry forward by supplying the 4 LMK boards with a single source OCXO clock.

    When Timothy is discussing SYSREF alignment, he is stating the you have to feed the SDCLKoutx back as a reference. The SYSREF is feed back into the FB Mux shown in the red box in the image below.

    Since you do not want to use CLKin0, the second method Timothy discussed will not work for you.

    Regards,

    Kia Rahbar

  • Hi Kia,

    When you are referring to 4 LMKs only, what mode these LMK should be like "ZDM Dual PLL Loop, with Sysref Divider feedback" ?

    If yes, then how can you guarantee DCLKout and SDCLKout are in phase ? As I will be giving both DCLKout and SDCLKout to Zynq RFSoC

    As per  "because there could be variations in the power-up or register programming for each card, you do not know what the LMK04828 R-divider phase will be. LMK04828 also does not have a way to reset the R-divider phase, so even if you put the SYSREF in the feedback loop and tried to synchronize all the SYSREF dividers you would still be unable to ensure the correct final phase is achieved"

    Please if possible provide brief block diagram for your scheme. 

  • Hello Shekhar,

    ZDM dual PLL loop with SYSREF divider feedback is a possible configuration for synchronization.

    DCLKout and SDCLKout can be in phase if the steps described in the Synchronization of Multiple LMK0482x Devices application note are followed.

    Please note there are three synchronization methods for synchronizing multiple LMK04828 devices. These methods along with their pros and cons are shown below:

    A further description of each of these synchronization methods can be found here: https://www.ti.com/lit/an/snaa294/snaa294.pdf

    Regards,

    Kia Rahbar

  • Hi Kia,

    Thank you for the reply.

    One more question, If i am using multiple LMKs and each needs its DCLKout to be in-phase and each of its SDCLK to be in-phase whereas its not needed DCLK and SDCLKs to be in phase.

    So can I use Single reference clock with power divider and provide to all LMKs CLKin1 (ZDM internal feedback Dual Loop), will that guarantee my above requirement ?

  • Hello Shekhar,

    Yes, you can use a single reference clock with power divider.

    Please make sure you follow the procedures described in section 4 of the application note in my last post. If you follow the steps in this section, you can achieve synchronization using a single reference clock.

    Regards,

    Kia Rahbar

  • Hi Kia,

    I am clear that if we give Single source reference clock to all LMKs, DCLK of each will be in-phase. But will SDCLKs of each LMK be in-phase ? Because SDCLK is ouput of sysref divider and 

    As per  " there could be variations in the power-up or register programming for each card, you do not know what the LMK04828 R-divider phase will be. LMK04828 also does not have a way to reset the R-divider phase, so even if you put the SYSREF in the feedback loop and tried to synchronize all the SYSREF dividers you would still be unable to ensure the correct final phase is achieved"

    Here I want all my "Analog SYSREF" to be in-phase and also all "PL SYSREF" to be in-phase

    Will this work ?

  • Hello Shekhar,

    When using a single reference clock, the SDCLKs of each LMK will be in phase if a low input frequency is used (see highlighted text below).

    Regards,

    Kia Rahbar

  • Hello Shekhar,

    Shekhar Kulkarni said:
    If my above scheme would give me all LMK outputs in phase with input reference clock, then why do we need to have Master LMK and Slave LMK concept


    I suggested this because it can simplify your job of providing SYSREF.  The upstream LMK04828 can generate SYSREF at the desired frequency and have it re-clocked out through the down-stream LMK04828 devices.  In the image you showed in the prior post, the The down-stream LMK04828 devices are doing zero delay at the lowest device clock frequency, then it re-clocks SYSREF.  This is different method than doing ZDM at the SYSREF frequency.  When doing ZDM at SYSREF frequency, if you still want all the SYSREF to occur at the exact same moment (and not just the same LMFC edge -- the only requirement for JESD204B synchronization), then you will need to request SYSREF at the same time from all the down-stream LMK04828 devices.

    Shekhar Kulkarni said:
    I am clear that if we give Single source reference clock to all LMKs, DCLK of each will be in-phase. But will SDCLKs of each LMK be in-phase ?

    If you use the SYSREF divider as the feedback frequency and the reference frequency is the same as the SYSREF frequency, then the SDCLKs will be in-phase except for possible phase variation you create by programming different delays in the SYSREF digital or analog delay adjustment programming fields.

    Shekhar Kulkarni said:
    As per  " there could be variations in the power-up or register programming for each card, you do not know what the LMK04828 R-divider phase will be. LMK04828 also does not have a way to reset the R-divider phase


    Please note, if you need to be able to reset the PLL R divider, the LMK04832 can reset the PLL R divider for phase determinism.

    73,
    Timothy