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MSP430Ware and TI's Policies on Open Source Software

John Westmoreland43
Guru 13945 points
Other Parts Discussed in Thread: MSP430WARE

TI,

I downloaded MSP430Ware and read the following in the licensing:


4. Audit Right. At TI s request, and within thirty (30) days after receiving written notice, you shall permit an independent auditor selected by TI to have access, no more than twice each calendar year (unless the immediately preceding audit revealed a discrepancy) and during your regular business hours, to all of your equipment, records, and documents as may contain information bearing upon the use of the Licensed Materials, or any derivatives thereof,. You shall keep full, complete, clear and accurate records with respect to product sales and distributions for a period beginning with the then-current calendar year and going back three (3) years.

This needs to go under the 'You gotta be kidding' category.

TI's HAL was an issue because it had been largely non-debugged and non-supported - but this is a swing in the exact opposite extreme direction.

And I wonder - what is the justification?  I have already made improvements to the past versions of MSP430Ware because it isn't complete and yes, it does have some bugs.  

With such draconian diatribe in your license agreement why would anyone want to use this?  It is 'free' - but it isn't really?  

Shame on you TI.  I see that you are back to your 'old-ways' as far as open source software is concerned.  

Regards,
John Westmoreland 

  • 0
    Guru 35595 points

    They've been through this nonsense multiple times with Stellaris.

    http://e2e.ti.com/support/microcontrollers/msp430/f/166/p/180498/650567.aspx#650567

    Andy Neil said:

    There really are only 2 conditions that you need in your licence:

    1. No Warranty.
    2. Not for use on non-TI products.

    Don't they ever learn?

  • 0
    Expert 2505 points

    Thanks for posting this.  The last version MSP430Ware I downloaded was 1.25, which claims to be BSD-3-Clause and does not have that clause anywhere that I can find.  I have two files in BSP430 that are derived from MSP430Ware 1.25 to accommodate errata work-arounds, with the code origin and modifications duly noted in source and COPYING files, so I'll make sure I don't download any newer releases lest the changed terms confuse the issue.

    FWIW, BSP430 is IMO more functional than MSP430Ware, though it doesn't support every single peripheral in every way you might use it.   It's BSD-3-Clause (except for one file in an example that's derived from ChaN's fatfs distribution and has a basic open source license in the source code).

    [EDIT: Reading the other thread Andy pointed to, it seems this clause was in a file present in earlier releases that was removed for subsequent releases.  Unless it's been put back since 1.25.]

  • 0 in reply to Andy Neil
    Guru 35595 points

    Andy Neil said:
    They've been through this nonsense multiple times with Stellaris.

    http://e2e.ti.com/support/microcontrollers/msp430/f/166/p/180498/650567.aspx#650567 

    And now they're going to do it all over again with the renaming of "Stellaris" to "Tiva":

     http://e2e.ti.com/support/microcontrollers/stellaris_arm/f/901/t/258599.aspx

    http://e2e.ti.com/support/microcontrollers/stellaris_arm/f/901/t/258137.aspx

    Andy Neil said:
    Don't they ever learn?

    Aparently not!

  • 0
    TI__Genius 17802 points

    Hi John, Andy, and everyone,

    sorry for the trouble and thank you for bringing this to our attention! Our software team is already looking into this licensing clause, hopefully we can address it and get back to you soon.

    In the meanwhile, if you are mainly interested in the driver library provided as part of the MSP430Ware, you can still download this package separately and directly under BSD license. 

    The link for the latest version is here: 

    Note that no click-wrap/agreement is required to download this software. 

    One more note, MSP430Ware is essentially an organized collection of software, code libraries (which are mostly if not all open-source BSD), and documentation  that are also available on the web. So even though this workaround won't need to be the long term solution for getting MSP430Ware, while our team is sorting this out, if there's something specific that you're looking for in the MSP430Ware collection, chances are you can also find it on ti.com as direct download and free of hassle. 

    Thanks again for the comments, we always appreciate your candid feedback!

    Dung

  • 0 in reply to Dung Dang
    Guru 35595 points

    Dung Dang said:
    Our software team is already looking into this licensing clause

    Thanks, but it's not just a matter of the one clause.

    The entire licence agreement needs to be torn up, and you need to go right back to basics and really think about what minimum terms you need. Stop gold-plating it! It's not supposed to be a job-creation scheme for lawyers!!

    Again, there really are only 2 conditions that you need in your licence:

    1. No Warranty.
    2. Not for use on non-TI products.

    As already noted, the Luminary guys managed to keep it to just one page.

    If the licence is unworkable, then all your effort into the software itself becomes pointless - because people won't use it for fear of the licence.

    Worse than that, the software support ceases to be a selling point for your products - and, thus, the lack of software support becomes a disincentive to use your products!

    You are shooting yourselves in the feet!

     

     

  • 0 in reply to Andy Neil
    Guru 227245 points

    Andy Neil said:
    As already noted, the Luminary guys managed to keep it to just one page.

    Still quite much. Way too often, teh legal stuff at the beginning of a code file is larger than the code itself. And definitely larger than the (much needed) explanation of the code.

    But the problem is that those who do the project aren't those who add the legal stuff to it later. And none of both know much abotu the other's field of operation.

    So way too often, totally unneeded or counterproductive legal clauses get added where they don't belong.

    Andy Neil said:
    there really are only 2 conditions that you need in your licence:

    Well, there are some more if you don't want your efforts helping your competitors to save efforts. But especially this 'big brother clause' is a 100% showstopper for any use of the stuff outside TI itself.

  • 0 in reply to Jens-Michael Gross
    Guru 35595 points

    Andy Neil said:
    As already noted, the Luminary guys managed to keep it to just one page.

    Jens-Michael Gross said:
    Still quite much

    I do agree!

    Jens-Michael Gross said:
    totally unneeded or counterproductive legal clauses

    Absolutely!

    Andy Neil said:
    there really are only 2 conditions that you need in your licence:

    Jens-Michael Gross said:
    Well, there are some more if you don't want your efforts helping your competitors to save efforts

    Isn't that covered by my Condition No 2: 

    • Not for use on non-TI products.
  • 0 in reply to Andy Neil
    Guru 227245 points

    Andy Neil said:
    there really are only 2 conditions that you need in your licence:

    Jens-Michael Gross said:
    Well, there are some more if you don't want your efforts helping your competitors to save efforts
    Isn't that covered by my Condition No 2: 

    • Not for use on non-TI products.[/quote]

    You don't know lawyers. :) This forbids use on non-TI products, but doesn't forbid using the code r the ideas or algorithms as base for own code (99% identical) on non-Ti-products. And so on. Whether the code is of any use at all on non-TI products (due to different architecture) woudl have to be decided on each case, which nobody will do.

  • 0 in reply to Jens-Michael Gross
    Guru 35595 points

    Going back to the title of this thread:

    MSP430Ware and TI's Policies on Open Source (sic) Software

    Note that TI's MSP430Ware, StellarisWare, TivaWare, etc are not really Open Source - the source is provided, but it is not Open:

    The Open Source Initiative said:

    Introduction

    Open source doesn't just mean access to the source code. The distribution terms of open-source software must comply with the following criteria:

    1. Free Redistribution

    The license shall not restrict any party from selling or giving away the software as a component of an aggregate software distribution containing programs from several different sources. The license shall not require a royalty or other fee for such sale.

    http://opensource.org/osd

     

    As JMG says, TI - understandably - don't want competitors using TI's hard work to the competitor's advantage. So TI's code is not Open - it is closed for use on TI products only.

    All the other manufacturers do the same. It is entirely reasonable & understandable.

     

  • 0 in reply to Andy Neil
    Guru 227245 points

    Andy Neil said:
    So TI's code is not Open - it is closed for use on TI products only.

    Well, it depends on your understanding of 'open'. The source is open in a sense that you can see it without previously signing an NDA. It is not open to be used for everything you might want to do with it.

    The original idea behind open source was no 'public domain' or 'free to use for everyone without restrictions', but rather 'free to know what's going on in the code, even if you're not an employee'. So you are able to find security risks (or verify for yourself that there are none), write own code that is compatible, or just to elaborate implementation details that might be important for your use of the (unchanged) code but are not documented.

    The quote from the open source initiative goes a bit further: it also specifies that the originator of the code doesn't forbit that you sell this software as part of your own project and shall not ask for a royalty.
    This doesn't include that you cannot bind the usage to specific hardware.
    If someone buys an MSP and uses code form the MSP driver lib, he can sall ehte final product, including the lib source code and is not chaged for it (but of course for the processor). But he must not take the code, change it for an ATMEL and and sell it then. Fully compliant. Also, the open source license IMHO does not demand that you allow any changes on your software. Only that it may be distributed (unchanged and with source and without fee) with a project that uses it in conformance with the usage terms.

    This basically removes the problem that you might do a project but when you sell it, you have to tell your customers to load this and that driver package from the origin separately (and perhaps pay for it). Which on systems like Linux, where open source origintates from and where most programs need to be compiled and do not come as binaries, was a much bigge rproblem than in MAC or Windows world.

    This is like with 'free' software initiative, where some people think it means "doesn't cost anything" while it really means "free to be used as you wish, how, as long and where you wish, after you bought it and free to be sold to the next one if you don't need it anymore"

    However, all those initiatives have undergone so many mutations that neither the original meaning nor the current one will have any significance tomorrow.

  • 0 in reply to Jens-Michael Gross
    Guru 35595 points

    Quite so.

    The OSF used to have the saying, "'Free' as in 'free speech'; not as in 'free beer'".  But they seem to have dropped this - presumably the alcohol reference is not considered politically correct these days...?

  • 0 in reply to Dung Dang
    Guru 13945 points

    Dung,

    Thanks for your reply.

    It's always interesting that when the lawyers get involved they more often than not become the deal killers because they really don't understand technology.

    But, just in case this takes forever, I am not going to let the grass grow under my feet.

    Regards,
    John Westmoreland 

  • 0 in reply to Andy Neil
    Guru 227245 points

    Andy Neil said:
    The OSF used to have the saying, "'Free' as in 'free speech'; not as in 'free beer'".  But they seem to have dropped this - presumably the alcohol reference is not considered politically correct these days...?

    Well, it could be changed to 'free lunch' whcih would be politically correct. And also, everyone knows that there is no such thing as a free lunch. :)

  • 0 in reply to Jens-Michael Gross
    Guru 35595 points

    Posted by

    In an effort to further simplify customer’s software development, Texas Instruments has changed the software license for some of the key components of StellarisWare (v9107 and greater). Stellaris’ Peripheral Driver Library (DriverLib) source code and the device and peripheral description header files are now under a BSD-style license.

    What does this change mean for you?
    The BSD-style license eliminates all the legal complexity for your software development and allows you to focus purely on creating a differentiating software application.

    Which source files are now under a BSD-style license?
    All the files in the following directories are now under a BSD-style license:
    \StellarisWare\driverlib\
    \StellarisWare\inc\

    Are all the components of StellarisWare now under a BSD-style license?
    All of the other components of StellarisWare like USBLib and GrLib remain under the existing license. If you have any concerns or questions about the license please post a question on the Stellaris E2E Forum.

    What is StellarisWare software?
    StellarisWare software is an extensive suite of software designed to simplify and speed development of Stellaris-based microcontroller applications.

    Where can I get the latest StellarisWare release?
    ti.com/stellarisware

     

    And this was the attached "BSD-style" licence:

    Software License Agreement

      Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without
      modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions
      are met:

      Redistributions of source code must retain the original copyright
      notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer.

      Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the original copyright
      notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the
      documentation and/or other materials provided with the 
      distribution.

      Neither the name of Texas Instruments Incorporated nor the names of
      its contributors may be used to endorse or promote products derived
      from this software without specific prior written permission.

    THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE COPYRIGHT HOLDERS AND CONTRIBUTORS
    "AS IS" AND ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT
    LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR
    A PARTICULAR PURPOSE ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE COPYRIGHT
    OWNER OR CONTRIBUTORS BE LIABLE FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL,
    SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT
    LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE,
    DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY
    THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT LIABILITY, OR TORT
    (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY OUT OF THE USE
    OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGE.

    Yep - that was the entire thing!

    So it can be done...

     

  • 0 in reply to Andy Neil
    Guru 13945 points

    Has this been done for MSP430Ware yet?

  • 0 in reply to John Westmoreland43
    Guru 13945 points

    Nope.

    4. Audit Right. At TI s request, and within thirty (30) days after receiving written notice, you shall permit an independent auditor selected by TI to have access, no more than twice each calendar year (unless the immediately preceding audit revealed a discrepancy) and during your regular business hours, to all of your equipment, records, and documents as may contain information bearing upon the use of the Licensed Materials, or any derivatives thereof,. You shall keep full, complete, clear and accurate records with respect to product sales and distributions for a period beginning with the then-current calendar year and going back three (3) years.

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