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UCC28780: "Supporting switching frequency range" and "max current on RCS"

Part Number: UCC28780
Other Parts Discussed in Thread: , LMG2610

Tool/software:

Hello team,

Can you support on the below questions?

1. What is the min/max value for switching frequency (fsw) that UCC28780 can support?

2. What is the max current on RCS? iQL_RMS shows RMS current, but the excel tool on TI.com doesn’t have peak current.

Best regards,

Shotaro

  • Shotaro,

    Max freq is 1MHz, min is 25kHz. Current on Rcs depends on the R value. The OCP threshold is 1.2V and you can do the math to get the max current. 

  • Hello Tan-san,

    1. Fr0equency range: Understood

    2. Current on Rcs: The Excel sheet shows "Maximum RMS Current in Rcs Resistor" but it doesn't have peak current at the condition. Can I calculate the value?

    Best regards,

    Shotaro

  • Hello Shotaro-san, 

    Let me make so some clarifications, please.

    This previous E2E thread has more information on the usual switching frequency range:
    https://e2e.ti.com/support/power-management-group/power-management/f/power-management-forum/767251/ucc28780-maximum-switching-frequency

    There is no specific minimum frequency, however, there is a practical minimum near 100~150kHz.  This lower "limit" is necessary to ensure that burst mode (ABM) can operate smoothly with up to 9 pulses per burst.  It is the burst frequency that is 25kHz.   The switching frequency (fSW) within the burst is higher. 

    If full-load, low-line minimum fSW is <100kHz, then it can be difficult for all of the 9 or 8 pulses to fit within the burst period at the upper end of ABM.  
    There can be excessive jitter which may result in audible noise. 

    For peak current calculation: OCP threshold is 1.2V, but normal full-load peak threshold is 0.8V, so Ipeak = 0.8/Rcs.
    Note, this equation does not account for turn-off delay due to Coss which allows Ipeak to increase a little bit more. 

    Regards,
    Ulrich

  • Hello Ulrich-san,

    Thank you for follow up. Can I ask peak current more?

    1. I calculated the peal current based on the below equation(=8.72A), but the value is not equal to 0.8/Rcs(=1.09A). I think my understanding is not correct. So can you teach me?

    Parameters Value

    Vbulk,min

    160V

    Dmax

    0.492

    Tsw

    40μs (=25kHz)

    L

    361μH

    Rcs

    0.732Ω

    2. Can you estimate with maximum switching frequency when the setting is the attached? I tried to download SLUC644 but TI security blocked installing.

    UCC28780 Excel Design Calc preliminary V2.xlsx

    Best regards,

    Shotaro

  • Hello Shotaro-san, 

    Thank you for the Excel file.  I will need some time to examine the inputs in detail. 
    However, I did see that cell D35 of 'Input Here" sheet has fSW_min = 250kHz, not 25kHz (as in your table above). 
    That makes Ipeak = 0.872A, which is < 1.09A.  

    The ratio of 1.09/0.872 = 1.25, so I suspect there may be a +25% margin factor somewhere.  I have to look at the source file to be sure.
    I'll reply in a day or two. 

    Regards,
    Ulrich

  • Hello Ulrich-san,

    1. Peak current: Thank you for fixing. Please confirm the contents of the excel file.

    2. Maximum switching frequency when fsw(min)=250kHz: Do you have any thought on this?

    Best regards,

    Shotaro

  • Hello Shotaro-san, 

    1.  For the peak current issue, I found that there is no +25% margin factor. 
    Instead, Ipeak = 0.872A is based on a reduced Vcst(opp) limit threshold. The Vcst(opp) curve is shown in Figure 34 in the datasheet. 


    This threshold is reduced by the Ivsl current into the VS input.
    Since your minimum input bulk voltage is 160V, the Ivsl is relatively high and corresponds to a Vcst(opp) threshold somewhere down the curve.
    This lower Vcst(opp) threshold, plus some compensation for turn-off delay time, results in the correct Rcs calculation.

    2.  For the maximum frequency question:
    It is difficult to estimate that value without a lot more information, but I think it can be roughly estimated by comparison to the UCC28780EVM-002 results.
    Although an older EVM at 45W output, the EVM User Guide (link: https://www.ti.com/lit/pdf/sluubo8 ) shows switching frequency in Figure 10 (page 10).

    For input voltage range of 180~225Vac at full load, fSW is about 290~295kHz.  Then, Figure 11 shows ABM frequency at 476kHz a load level just below the AAM>ABM boundary (estimated to be ~58% load from Table 4).  This frequency (which is roughly 1.63X fSW(min)) is maintained throughout the ABM range.  
    In LPM and SBP modes, fSW goes even higher, although only in brief bursts of two pulses each.  I estimate SBP to switch near ~1MHz.

    I think you can use this ratio scaling method to estimate fSW for your design. 

    Regards,
    Ulrich

  • Hello Ulrich-san,

    Thank you. Let me double check my understanding.

    1. Peak current

    - The peak current can be calculated Vcst/Rcs. (Fig.19)

    - Vcst value depends on operation mode (Fig. 23). The maximum threshold is Vcst(opp) in AAM mode.

    - Vcst(opp) value depends on Ivsl (Fig. 34).

    2. Maximum frequency

    We can estimate frequency for each mode based on the EVM result. (180~225Vac)

    - AAM: 290~295kHz (Fig.10)

    - ABM: 476kHz (Fig. 11)

    - LPM: Two pulses

    - SBP: ~1MHz

    Best regards,

    Shotaro

  • Hello Shotaro-san, 

    You are mostly correct, but I'd like to expand on item 1, and clarify item 2:

    1.  Your understanding is correct, except that the maximum steady-state threshold is Vcst(opp) in AAM mode.  The maximum threshold is the horizontal Vcst(max) line at 0.8V.  Vcst can exceed the Vcst(opp) curve, but once it does, it starts a 160ms timer which shuts down operation if Vcst does not fall back below Vcst(opp) limit within 160ms.  This allows a brief over-power condition, but not sustained over-power. 

    2.  These frequencies are specific to the EVM for the relative output power levels.  
    My intent is to indicate that you can expect ABM frequency to be roughly 1.67~2 X that of AAM frequency and eventually, LPM and SPB frequency to be ~2X the ABM frequency. 

    Whatever frequency that you choose for full-power, minimum input voltage operation, you may "expect" a total increase of about 4X of fSW(min).
    This is a general guideline, not absolute, and can vary a bit between lowline and high-line, and from design to design. 

    Regards,
    Ulrich

  • Ulrich-san,

    Thank you for clear explanation.

    1. I have an additional question. Can you explain the reason why Ivcl value is between 433uA~966uA when 160Vmin?

    2. I understood.

    Best regards,

    Shotaro

  • Hello Shotaro-san, 

    You are correct to question my reply.  I based my answer on my previous experience with designs that operate down to 85Vac input.  
    I di not "do the math" for your high-voltage only case. 

    In fact, using Rvs1 = 85kR (from the Excel sheet), Ivsl will be about 245uA (Ivsl = 160V / ( (100/13) * 85kR ). 
    So Vcst will be higher than I indicated, but lower than 0.6V.  

    That leaves a discrepancy in the peak current between calculated value and measured value that I cannot fully explain.
    Two things that I can think of are:
    1.  The turn-off delay is a fairly long time and allows the peak to go higher than the threshold.  This is unlikely since GaN is being used. 
    2.  The current-sense signal from the GaN current output is not correctly scaled.  The Excel tool does not account for the 1mA/A scale of the LMG2610 device, so Rcs value must be manually adjusted by x1000 to provide the same Vcs voltage for a given peak GaN current.  
    Then, the calculated Ropp value must be reduced by the scaled-Rcs value because the line-compensation current (Ivsl/Klc) flows through both Ropp and Rcs, but Rcs is no longer negligible to the sum of their values. 

    Regards,

    Ulrich