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ISO5852S: 3 phase inverter switch node voltage problem and high voltage spikes/ringing

Part Number: ISO5852S

[reposted because the images did not show correctly]

I am building a High voltage 3 Phase BLDC motor drive, operating to at 150V (Max 200V). I am using the IPB60R040 mosfets on the inverter and ISO5852S for the gate drivers. I have 3 isolated DCDC converters that supplies the high side gate drivers with 15 volts above the switch point voltage. The inverter Circuit diagram and one of the gate drive circuits are below.

The board is working in general but I am seeing something that I don't understand and causes problems on the motor. I have to show a few scope plots to explain. The colors in the scope plots corresponds to the measurement points shown with colored arrows in the inverter circuit diagram above. Light blue is the switch node, purple is the high side switch gate and yellow is the low side switch gate.  My ground reference point is at the "0Vbus". When looking at the switch node of one of the phases (blue arrow), under normal working conditions it is expected that the voltage at that point is equal to the bus voltage when the high side switch is on and low side switch off. When the high side switch starts turning off, the switch node voltage will stay at the bus voltage until the low side switch turns on (after the dead time, 1.5us in this case) the switch node voltage will drop to zero. See figure below. 

(Side notes: The dead time is very long, I know, this is to better display what is happening. Also, I have some voltage spikes and ringing problems that I need to deal with as well, mostly due to parasitic inductances on a bad layout, I think. But the problem that I want to deal with here is something else.)

The figure above is what I see on one of the inverter phases, lets say this is phase A, which is as expected. Now, what I see on another phase/leg (phase C) of the inverter is what I do not understand. I seems that the switch node voltage drops down to zero before the low side switch turns on. See figure below. 

It is as if the switch node voltage drains away before the low side switch turns on. This only happens on one of the inverter phases/legs (phase C) and only when the motor is connected to the drive. When the motor is disconnected, all the phases looks like the first scope plot figure (phase A). I has the fortunate side effect that it eliminates all voltage spike and ringing on phase C, but I don't think that this is supposed to happen, or is it? And it causes the motor to start jittering and even change direction when I ramp up the voltage to about 50V. I suspect that it is because power is lost in that phase due to this problem? 

Further more, on phase B I see something similar but now it is on the turning on of the high side switch and turning off of the low side switch. What I expect is what I see in the figure below on phase C. The switch node voltage will rise only when the high side switch turns on after the dead time.

However, what I see on phase B is in the figure below. The switch node voltage rises before the high side switch turns on (which is at the mid point, red arrow, in the scope plot below). And the low side switch gate does not go down to zero

I guess this is probably because the reference point to which I am measuring (0Vbus) is moving as the low side switch turns off, causing a voltage over the low side switch drain/source, which makes sense. But why do I not see this on phase C during turn on of high side and turn off of low side? One thing that I suspected was that the low side mosfet on phase C was perhaps damaged and does not turn off properly for some reason, but I have replaced it and still get the same results. I don't really understand what I am seeing here and I am asking for some insight, maybe I am missing something?

Here are the scope plots of all three phases during switch on and switch off.

Phase A:                                                                                         Phase B:                                                                                   Phase C:

Also, I the ringing is quite bad, and I need to deal with that. It has caused some gate drivers to get damaged or at best give false/premature DESAT faults. Ideally I need to redo the layout, but for now I need to modify it to get it working. I have played around with larger gate resistance, external Schottky drain to source diodes and snubbers circuits. However, at higher voltages (100V to 150V) I still get quite some voltage spikes, especially during the low side switch on. Currently my gate resistors are 43ohm (on and off), which I think is quite large already and I am starting to compromise on efficiency. The turn on time of the low side switch is almost 2us, and yet I still see that large negative voltage spike, such as seen on phase B figure. Can I really go even slower switch time? I have tried a few RC snubber design methods, such as the app note (www.ti.com/.../slpa010.pdf) but it does not seem to work as effective. I had the best results by simply trying different capacitor and resistor combinations that I had lying around experimentally. 3.3nF and 1.3ohm has seem to help a bit. The ringing is in the high Mhz range and it seems to have a lower frequency component as well. See figure below:

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks 

  • Hi Albert,

    Welcome to E2E!

    I will be reviewing this, but won't be able to work on it until early next week. Would that be okay with your timeline?

    Best regards,

    Andy Robles

  • Hi Andy

    No problem, thanks.

  • HI Albert,

    Thank you for your patience. I will reply once I have an update.

    Best regards,

    Andy Robles

  • Hi Albert,  we are revisiting this. Do you have any new updates? or everything stays the same? Thanks very much.

    Looking forward to your reply.

    Wei

  • Hi Wei

    Yes still the same, I haven't been able to make any progress with this issue.

    Thanks

    Albert

  • Albert, Thanks very much for your confirmation. Andy in my team is back to office, and he has already started and you should be expecting solutions pretty soon.

  • Hi Albert,

    I apologize for the delay here and thank you for your patience.

    This is definitely unusual and will need some investigation. I see you've tried several things, but there's a few things I did not see that you may have tried, but I would like to clarify to make sure I'm on the same page:

    • Just to clarify, there is nothing different in the schematic of all the other gate drivers correct?
    • I saw that you replaced the gate driver on the C phase and that the behavior did not change. Did you change it with a new unit or with a known good unit from phase A?
      • Could you try replacing the phase C unit with a known good unit?
    • Given that all the drivers are configured the same way they should be operating the exact same way. One thing that was stressed in the body of the post was the layout of the design. The layout of the gate driver has a huge impact in the performance of our drivers. Would you be able to share your layout files, or pictures of the layout?
      • If you would rather share with more confidentiality we can share the layout through email
      • To share through email I can send you my contact information through the E2E direct message feature and we can continue this investigation via email
    Let me know if you have any questions on the above!

    Best regards,
    Andy Robles

  • Hi Andy, thanks for looking at this.

    Yes, all the gate drive circuits are identical. 

    It was actually the low side mosfet on phase C that I replaced with a new one and no difference seen. But I have also replaced the gate drives on Phase C, however, it was not with the known good from phase A but with a known working IC, and it also made no difference.

    Regarding the layout. I actually have another Identical PCB, which is currently not working due to some other damage, which I want to fix up. But I am still waiting for the replacement parts that I ordered for this board. Once I have this board up and running I can verify if the same phenomenon occurs on this board, in which case it is most definitely a layout issue. However, this board has worked previously and I can't remember having the same problem, unless I did not notice it because I did not test/exert the board to the same extend that I am doing the new board where I am seeing the problem now. So I will just double check on that to rule out the layout possibility. But yes, you can send me your email details please.

    I am also planning to, when the replacement components arrive, just outright replace all the Gate Drives and Mosfets on the current board, just to rule out any possibility that there are secondary issues on any of the IC's that is causing me to see funny things. I have been reworking the board quite a lot in the process. Those spare parts should have been here already, but hoping they arrive this week. 

    But I also just wanted to check if what I am seeing is a common problem or not. Gathering from your initial response its not.

  • Hi Albert,

    Verifying the functionality of the old board and replacing suspected components will help us narrow down to a solution. Just like you inferred, this is not a common problem that I'm aware off. Being able to rule out this being a layout issue will helpful us focus on other root cause possibilities. I have sent you my contact info if you would like to send over the layout for review.

    I'll be looking forward to the testing results once you get the components needed.

    Best regards,

    Andy Robles

  • Hi Albert,

    As discussed we will continue this conversation over email. I will go ahead and close this thread.

    Best regards,

    Andy Robles