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Original question:

Optotriac in older spice format

WEBENCH® Tools/TINA-TI: TINA-TI Non-linear dependent (behavioural) sources (B) - "Current variable number out of range"

Aidan Walton
Expert 1095 points
Part Number: TINA-TI

Tool/software: WEBENCH® Design Tools

Hi,

I am having a battle with TINA-TI's spice interpreter. From previous posts from which this question is related it seems I am not alone with this issue. Having taken spice code that seems to have originated in a very recent (2020) project that someone developed using LTSpice, the same code stubbornly refuses to execute within TINA-TI.  From the previous posts it is apparent that some manipulation of the non-linear dependent B sources is required for TINA to do its thing. However with the best will and effort on my part I have still been unable to get this relatively simple code to run.

It would be very simple for me to post the code here and perhaps have a TI expert look over it and make some modifications to get it to work by doing what I have seen in the previous posts as syntax 'upgrades'. The problem is that the previous posts did not really help me to fully understand why certain manipulations are in fact needed. Cursory comments about changing B sources to more 'modern' spice syntax have been made and while changes are clearly necessary I am compelled to ask if it is in fact fair or even true to call these changes a syntax upgrade?

If one syntax for B sources is considered 'old spice' then why? After all it still smells good to me :)  and indeed Spice syntax as defined still by Berkley's ng-spice as of 2020. Still refers explicitly to B sources.

If a 'B' source is defined and then used in the evaluation of another component e.g. 

B1 Eap Ph_B V=ke*V(Wm)*sin(I(B5)*time)

B5 0 Theta_e I=V(Wm)*PP

The reference to B5 in the evaluation of B1 causes the error "Current variable number out of range"

If the implementation of B sources and their further usage as 'devices' in the evaluation of values for other components is not allowed by TINA. My question is why not. Clearly other Spice based simulators are doing just this without issue.

I find TINA-TI generally to be a really great piece of software and its freeware status is very compelling to me. I have tried others including LTSpice but I keep coming back to TINA-TI for many reasons I will not go into. However this thorny little problem is quite frustrating.

I would very much like a clear and syntactically precise guide to how it is possible to make translations between SPICE files that use B sources directly and then use references to these sources in the evaluation of other components.

Stating that a B source needs to be replaced by a standard linear VCCS or a CCCS etc is not intuitive and I think it also has limitations.

If this has to be done to get TINA to work. Please could someone take a few moments to explain clearly what is going on and what is syntactical correct in TINA-TI. If this is a limitation of TINA-TI then please be clear about this rather describing it as a syntax upgrade. 

I shall be happy to be corrected if I have made a blunder.

Many thanks

Aidan