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RFID Reader Documentation

Other Parts Discussed in Thread: TMS3705, MRD2EVM, TRF7960, TRF7964A, TRF7960A, TRF7970A

I´m using the TMS3705A RFID reader configuration. Some pages on SCBA020  application note are cleared.

Does exist a newer revision for this application note?

Could you help me with PCB coil design for TMS3705A.

I appreciate your attention.

Regards. 

  • David - 

    you really can't do a PCB coil design for the TMS3705 unless you do a conversion ckt...that part is expecting between 400-700uH, which means you need a wirewound or ferrite + wirewound coil. 

    see attached if you are interested...this would allow you to make a 47uH PCB antenna coil.

    8424.TMS3705_Inductance_Translator.pdf

    which you can use any L calculator to figure out ==> this one is pretty good. 

    http://emclab.mst.edu/inductance/

  • First of all I would like to thank you about your response.

    How can I place TMS3705 in CW Mode?

    Does exist a newer revision for "scba020" application note, because this document does not mention anything about it?

    Thank you for your attention.

    Regards.

  • The TMS3705 can be placed into CW mode by lowering the TXCT line.

    these may help you out, too...

    1460.Notes on TMS3705A1DRG4 & Read.pdf

    www.ti.com/litv/pdf/scbu052


  • David and Josh ... Refering to your 8424.TMS3705_Inductance_Translator.PDF ...which enables you to "see" the actual Tag reply.

    We use a simple made, inductance pick-up probe and can also "see" the actual Tag emission, without being blinded by the incoming "Charge Flux".

    A very small ThroughHole inductor (or SMD) typically 47uH in parallel with a 100 ohm "damping resistor" are soldered across a 50 ohm cable with a BNC at the other end.(into the oscilloscope).

    Position the "pick-up probe" close against the rim of the RFID tag ensuring it is aligned 90 degrees to the incoming Reader flux ...now the pick-up inductor is best aligned to "see" the "close Tag" Telegram and worst aligned to see the "distant" incoming, but large,  charge flux. The pickup inductor is too small to have any significant effect on the tag  performance.

    We use this in a simple jig to compare actual output emissions from suspect tags, and it is instructive!

    While simple, and CRO sync is a bit vague, with cardboard and hotmelt glue, it is perhaps a good learning tool

    Thanks for your other help Josh

    Ray

  • the purpose of the inductance translator was simply to be able to use lower inductance antennas with the TMS3705...as you cannot use PCB to make 400 to 700uH...we have another transmitter module called the RI-STU-MRD1 (now MRD2) which uses 47uH coil...which can be etched on circuit board material....because of this experience and whatnot, that was why we chose this value for the coil and what performance we aimed at duplicating. this was not just for diagnostics or pickup this was just to avoid a wire-wound coil.  

  • Thanks Josh ... I have a MRD2EVM Microreader here. I see your 47uH PCB coil.

    Out of curiosity, I cannot see the surface mount version of the TMS3705 on the MRD2 PCB,

    Does it not use this HDX Reader chip, or have I missed something?

    Ray

  • observant you are

    the MRD1 used the RI-RFM-001A (which has EOL'ed), the MRD2 uses a discrete ckt. driven by MCU.

  • David, Josh ... if you were to accept a PCB say 300mmx300mm , I think you can get somewhere near 400uH using PCB concentric etching about 10 turns at 250mm Diameter and "nest" the TMS3705 etc in one corner.(will check it out if you wish).

    Depends what you want to do... if you want 400uh on say 5cmx5cm pcb then might be difficult, though you could surely invoke the second layer of a double sided pcb and come close?

    Seems like a lot of extra components needed to enable use of 47uH to be comparable with MRD2EVM evaluation pcb.... just interesting... Josh, where can I learn more about what's on the MRD2EVM that does not use a TMS3705? seems like a good way to go even for us!

    Ray 

  • MRD2 product page ==> http://www.ti.com/product/ri-stu-mrd2

    ----

    background on the translator...this was compared (performance wise) to the MRD1 at the time, because we we had made the S4100 module, which was dual freq/multi-protocol reader...the thought was that anyone using the MRD1 who wanted to add HF capability could use the S4100 module as is, and add the extra ckt, which would allow them to keep their existing LF antenna and end users in the field would not see any change in the way they used their LF tags...that's the entire reason for the translator ckt existence. 

  • Hi Josh, I appreciate your attention.

    Now I´m working on hardware design for RFID reader based on TMS3705A, and for this reason I can´t validate RFID signals yet.

    I need hardware design guide in order to implement my own circuit board.

    I found “LF Technical Training TMS3705A Transceiver IC” document (attached), which depicts a circuit evaluation board on page 3, and I would like to have these circuit schematic.

    6366.1016.LF TMS3705A ASIC.pdf

    Please, could you provide me part number for coil and circuit schematic for circuit on page 3?

    Regards.

  • you won't be able to buy that - its a handmade sample - you will have to wind your own coil and measure it, then do the simple calculation for resonance ==> fc = 1/2pi * sqrt LC 

    the schematic is on page 16 here ==> http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tms3705.pdf

    4 outside connections and 8 parts - will it work for you?

  • Hi Josh, I really don´t understand how to write MCR register on TMS3705A, that is,

    Also pin TXCT, is It necessary to set high or low another additional pin in order to indicate value to be written on MCR?

    Do TMS3705 can read 125KHz RFID tags?

    Regards. 

  • you don't need to write the MCR register - i found this older document which has the flow in it where you see if TXCT stay low long enough, it will skip over that 

    6431.TMS3705_manual.pdf

    5444.LF TMS3705A ASIC.pdf

    no the TMS3705 will not read 125kHz tags as the frequency divider won't reach down that far.

    the newer TRF4140, however, will. 

  • Hi guys,

    David, Josh, Ray... how are you?

    First, I want to apologize for up this post, but maybe David will have the same problem that I had now.

    I received a prototype by other designer. In this prototype, the TMS3705 works very good, but I needed make a new layout by problems with temperature in other parts.

    Now, using the same schematics and components, my TMS no have same power. The work distance is very short. I used a oscilloscope in all pins of the TMS in the new electronic and compared to old electronic, I have only one diference:

    The voltage of the Ant 2 in new the electronic is lower than old electronic. The old had 80V peak to peak and new has 30V peak to peak. ( I just changed cooper trails. The schematics, components and firmware is same).

    I can post here the schematic and layout if anybody thinks that help.

    What I can do to up the voltagem in pin Ant 2. I really haven´t more ideas.

    Tnx very much by help.

    Edit: I solved my problem many days ago. I was using 25V capacitors in my circuit. They were mixed in my inventory.

  • Hi All,

    I want to use TMS3705 fro 125KHz read operation. Is it OK to go with this or some IC will be good? Please suggest.

  • the TMS3705 is not capable of outputting 125kHz. 

    anyway, none of TI's LF transponders operate at that frequency. They are powered by 134.2kHz downlink.

    what is your motivation to use 125kHz? this implies using a transponder which is not TI based. is that correct?

    the only parts we offer which can be used for 125kHz operation are the TRF4140  

    and the TPIC84125  

      

  • HI Josh,

    Thanks for responding in such a short time.

    Our motive for RFID LF design is to provide support for most of the LF RFID tags available in market which supports (125KHz to 134.2KHz). If you can provide some solution available for this, then it will be highly appreciated.

    For NFC 13.56 MHz support we are planning to go with TRF7960. Please advice on this also.

    Thanks in advance.
  • for the LF then go with the TRF4140 or the TPIC (if you really think that you want to provide dual frequency solution)

    for the 13.56MHz side, you have options, based on the protocols you want to support and the cost targets you have.
    the TRF79xxA family is pin for pin, so you could have a platform approach and then change the parts and firmware based on the application.
    for simple RFID or NFC reader/writer, the TRF7960A, -61, -62A, -63A or TRF7964A would work fine. For the other NFC modes support, use TRF7970A.
  • Hi Josh,

    As per your suggestion I checked TRF4140 it looks good to go with this one for both Full duplex and half duplex support.

    But it is showing out of stock on TI website with part status ACTIVE. Can we get it with in a lead time of one week. Please confirm, if you have any ideas.

    For 13.56 MHz we need to support maximum number of the protocols as we can and decided to go with TRF7970A for the same.

    Thanks again.

    Gaurav Gupta
  • Hi Josh, cant seem to find data sheet on TRF4140 or TRF4260? Can the TRF7970 be clocked to operate at 125-135KHz? Would like to use low freq inductive wire loop to send messages P2P between TRF7xxx devices and or TRF4140 via inductive coupling. Best
    Jeff
  • Short DS for the TRF4140 is here, you need to request the full data sheet (from same place:  

    the TRF7970A cannot be used in Low Frequency Applications, but it does use inductive coupling already @ 13.56MHz. There is an ECMA, ISO and NFC Forum standard/spec on this exact topic. (ECMA 340 and 352, ISO 18902, and NFC Forum (multiple docs))

    what is your motivation to use LF for P2P?

  • Josh, thanks for writing back.
    I think I requested the full data sheet a few days ago, TI could just post it as preliminary.

    ISO 18902 appears to refer to photo storage perhaps a swapped digit? Will read ECMA340/352.

    Regarding LF P2P was going to power 13.56Mhz readers with 125Khz (inductive/magnetic) and use same LF for back channel communications. Use NFC to read 13.5Mhz tag then talk over LF bus. VERY hostile industrial application can't have Ohmic contacts. Thought I could find device that could work 13Mhz NFC and 125-135Khz bus, suggestions? Speed not critical reliability and simple a must. Jeff
  • Hello Jeff,

    We don't have any devices which support both HF and LF in a single device. You would need to use multiple devices and have a host MCU communicate the information back and forth between them.

    I would recommend using NFC/HF RFID for Peer-to-Peer as the standards are well defined for that. Details can be read in this app note: http://www.ti.com/lit/pdf/sloa192


    If you want to discuss ideas for this application in further detail, we'd appreciate it if we could pull that discussion into a new thread.