FUNCTIONAL & SPECIFIC QUESTIONS ON DRV8301-HC-C2-KIT

1. you'll probably want to use the pot for this. It isn't set-up by default, so you'll have to write your own SW to handle this command interface.

2. I believe that's it for an analog input reference. All the pins are brought out, so if you wanted to do some sort of pulse train / pwm input to a GPIO or CAP you could.

3. In the InstaSPIN-BLDC GUI the poles are in multiples of 4 unfortunately. You can hard code your poles pretty simply in the source code (and still use the GUI if you choose to do so).

4. Well that's a broad question. Efficiency measured how? Shaft power / power supply power?  Are you taking into account your motor design?  How well it's tuned. 

5. InstaSPIN-BLDC is a trapezoidal (~square) wave on alternating 2-phases at a time, with 6 total combinations. 6-step commutation. There is also a sensorless FOC project that does 3-phase 120 degree space vector modulation (sine waves)

6. sure

7. I don't follow this question. With InstaSPIN-BLDC for any given Vbus and any given commutation duty cycle % you will get an associated rotor frequency. This can be tuned to maximize speed or maximize torque.

8. I recommend 8301 because it will have broader support / re-use going forwad. The only difference is that the 8301 has a SPI interface and more configurability that the GPIO interface of 8302.

Hi, Chris. First of all I would like to thank you about the instant response and all these important information!

 Regarding the FOC modulation project; It has the same interface as the InstaSPIN-BLDC workplace project or is different?

What do you suggest for my 14-pole pmsm motor (on electric vehicle project), InstaSPIN-BLDC or FOC project? Taking into account that the target is:  top start up torque, higher efficiency, low power consuption at stady speed 80% of duty cycle of max rpm and better rotor position control. These 2 project OPTIONS are both included in the DRV8301-HC-C2 KIT?

Thnaks in advance.

There are two different projects, one for IS-BLDC and one for SMO FOC.

For an electric vehicle, if you are trying to do direct drive (no gears) and want to be able to run under control at lower speeds, you would typically need to use a sensored system (hall, encoder, resolver) to provide the rotor angle information when the currents/voltages aren't present enough for the sensorless algorithm. If that is the case there is a Hercules DRV8301-LS31-KIT which is a better start. Hercules addresses the safety requirements of transportation more fully, and there is an IS-BLDC and a SENSORED FOC project (which also uses the sensorless SMO technique for redundancy) using the included motor with built-in encoder.

If the system is geared, or you are ok with going from 0 to X speed (say 5-10Hz before the SMO or BLDC can be used) then the standard sensorless techniques can be used for this type of application.

My project is an one manned  small car (95kg) and the single gear transmission used is 1:10.  The motor specs are:  42V nominal, 60A (continous) , outrunner with rotor inside diammeter (magnet-magnet diam.) 47mm, magnet length 45mm and speed constant 115rpm/V. The experimental torque measured on the wheel is 15N*m on plane field. So, on upward gradient it is higher.  With the previous sensoreless controller (I don't have detailed spec for that)  the start up was very poor with too much torque ripple and when starts up at high inclination grade could not overcomme the ripple and after some meters stopped. Every time the rotor speed exceeds a threshold rpm the acceleration and the power control are both more than enough. So I suggest that the motor meets the demands for this application but the controller needs replacement!

I assume that the DRV8301-HC-C2 KIT on SMO FOC project control can work fine with the above experimental project . What do you think taking into account the above data?

The Hercules  DRV-LS31-KIT can control my motor better but I will have to install encoder or halls on my motor. Do you have any encoders for such applications that can be set and fine tuned to any motor according to its specs? Anyway, can I buy the Hercules kit without the motor?

Any other suggestion from you is welcome.

Thanks

George,

From what is currently publically available, your best bet is to use the SMO FOC project in DRV8301-HC-C2-KIT with Piccolo. HOWEVER, we added a new start-up routine in a recent SMO FOC project that we did for the Stellaris DK-LM4F-DRV8312 foc_smo project that you would want to use. In fact, the software infrastructure of the entire Stellaris kit is something you would want to use by default in my opinion (called MotorWare). 

We will be releasing something with Piccolo in MotorWare this year and you will be very happy with that solution.  You will be able to completely re-use the DRV8301-HC-C2-KIT with this upcoming release, so please continue down this path.

Chris,

Thank you very much for the guidance! I will buy the DRV8301-HC-C2-KIT and after some tests I will contact you around here for questions or results. I will also test your new motorware solution when available and see for the results as well. I suppose that the new release will be found in ControlSuite application. Right?

Thanks once again for conversation here!

George,

When we release the MotorWare projects for C2000 you will see links from controlSUITE communicating the availability. MotorWare will be standalone from any MCU code distribution mechanism (controlSUITE, StellarisWare, 430Ware, etc.).

There are already MotorWare based kits for Stellaris, 430, and Hercules x 2 (about to be more). In these cases the specific MotorWare files are extracted and placed into the product's distribution method.

you can see DK-LM4F-DRV8312 which includes the start-up feature for foc_smo I mentioned.  You can see DRV8301-RM48-KIT for Hercules examples that run on the DRV8301.

Chris,

So, regarding the foc_smo project...is it included in the flash usb inside the drv8301-hc-c2 kit, or you mean that I will have to download it from the documents of the DRV8301-RM48-KIT for Hercules?  I already have installed the ControlSuite so I think that I can find it easier through there. When the new release is available I will dowload and extract it with controlsuite as you said above.

Moreover, I have the XDS100USB J-TAG which I use with my previous project with TMS320F28027, so I will be able to communicate easier with the  drv8301-hc-c2 kit.

I estimate to set up the DRV KIT easily. If any difficulty encountered I hope you can help me again. 

George,

The USB stick with the HC-C2 kit includes this version of sensorless (SMO) FOC, in controlSUITE style code

C:\ti\controlSUITE\development_kits\DRV830x-HC-C2-KIT_v104\PM_Sensorless

If you install the package for DK-LM4F-DRV8312 you would find the foc_smo here:

C:\StellarisWare\AppNotes\sw01294\motorware_1_00_01_00\sw\solutions\foc_smo

or for the DRV8301-RM48-KIT install

C:\ti\Hercules\MotorWare\v1.0.2\sw\solutions\foc_encoder_speed

Hi Chris. Ok I installed the above packages as you said and study them thoroughly till I wait for the university to bring me the KIT.

Meanwhile I would like to suggest me HALL SENSORES that you possibly have tested and work well;  just in case the motor control is not good and smooth enough at the low rpm.

Thanks in advance

George,

The only hall rotor position sensors we use are embedded in the motor / housing. I couldn't even tell you a brand. And typically we are running sensorless techniques regardless.

If you are asking about hall type current sensors, that's easy. LEM is the standard for a reason.

Hi Chris

I am writing to you in behalf of  GEORGE CHATZIDAKISs' team. Unfortunately for us George isn't active on the project anymore and unfortunately for you i am a new member on the controllers community so want to ask you a few questions:

1) we have bought the  DRV8301-HC-C2-KIT and the  InstaSPIN-BLDC GUI isn't working well for us as expected. Is the release of the MotorWare for our kit mentioned in your Sep 10 2012 10:39 AM post available for using (cause i can't find it in the  ControlSuite)? If not, you know what the expected release date is? Can you give it to us even if it's not available in the control suite because we need it as soon as possible?

2)  

The potentiometer on the board is by default not enabled. I have searched though the documentation for the DRV8301-HC-C2-KIT and haven't found any help,  can you please explain how to enable it so we can do tests without the use of a computer? I suppose the default project on the board is the INSTASPIN-BLDC, am i right?

Thanks in advance,

Alex

1. InstaSPIN-BLDC for DRV8301-HC-C2-KIT is supported through controlSUITE

C:\ti\controlSUITE\development_kits\DRV830x-HC-C2-KIT_v104

There is a MotorWare release end of this month for DRV8301 but with a new F2806x controlCARD and a new motor control technique.

2. The pot is provided in HW, but you are correct that we never use it in our SW. You can get the same functionality through a GUI, so that is what we do. If you want to use the POT you will need to write your own SW driver to monitor the ADC channel. I think this is on ADC-B0.  The kit comes with an image of InstaSPIN-BLDC_GUI_DRV8301_v###.out burned in flash of the F28035 controlCARD.  You should always use the corresponding C:\ti\controlSUITE\development_kits\DRV830x-HC-C2-KIT_v104\~GUI\InstaSPIN-BLDC_GUI_DRV83xx_v###.exe , and even better to re-program the card to latest v104.

Dear Mr. Clearman,

I wish to thank you for your immediate and accurate answers regarding our project. I am a colleague of Alexandros and George and I am afraid that our questions will keep coming to TI forum: first of all we will try to add the 14 poles feature to our instaSPIN  default image (see Georges' message Sep 07 2012 00:24 AM). Can you please tell us what kind of editing and to which file and variable/macro (containing the poles number information) has to be done?

Best Regards, 

Savas Piperidis

Hi

I am completely new to development board and power electronic drives.

Whether DRV8301-RM48-KIT will be able to drive 48V,  30A PM BLDC motor directly ? or do I have to use additional power MOSFET module?

Regards

Fasil

Hi Fasil,

The DRV8301EVM board should be sufficient for that motor.

-Nick

The DRV8301 EVMs used in all the kits have hardware scaled for +/- 82.5A through the PGAs on the DRV8301 and +/- 41.25A for the external OPA.

The SMO FOC software for the Hercules -R48 kit is built up for the Teknic 7.1A motor included in the kit, and the InstaSPIN-BLDC software should work with your motor.

The -HC-C2 version doesn't include a motor, but similar to the Hercules kit: InstaSPIN-BLDC should work with your motor, the SMO FOC was built up with the 4A Anaheim Motor I believe.

The DRV8301-69M-KIT offers IntaSPIN-FOC and InstaSPIN-MOTION which will does nearly automatic ID and tuning for a sensorless FOC solution.

Hi

Thank you for your reply

What is the difference between DRV8301-LS31-KIT and DRV8301-RM48-KIT ?

Kindly

Fasil

just the controlCARD that is included. You will need to look at the RM48x vs. the TMS570LS31 for differences.

Does DRV8301-RM48-KIT  always need a connected PC to drive the motor?

Kindly

Fasil

The included example project is most likely just loaded to RAM, and all the user interface is set-up just for a JTAG connection through a PC.  You would have to modify the software to have commands come from another source (a POT / buttons, serial interface, etc.) and would have to move the program to boot from flash.

Hi

Do I have to use extra heat sink or cooling fan for DRV8301-RM48-KIT, if I am driving a motor rated at 2kW (50V, 40A) ?

Kindly

Fasil

No, shouldn't be necessary.  I'd be careful at 50V though, since you are close to the 60V limit of the driver, if you are running at higher speeds the Bemf from your motor can cause an overvoltage condition on the bus.

Hi

Can you suggest a getting started guide for  DRV8301-RM48-KIT and basic demonstration project with included motor?

I don't know where to start!

Kindly

Fasil

Hi Muhammed,

TI MotorWare is a huge repository with projects, start up guides, and everything else. I recommend visiting their webpage and downloading. You should see a link from the EVM home page. 

Fasil,

From the link in your post to the kit there is a .zip download. It should have all docs & SW.

http://www.ti.com/lit/zip/spnc040

This software was written in MotorWare "style" before we released the MotorWare tool for InstaSPIN-FOC and InstaSPIN-MOTION supported only on Piccolo devices (not Hercules).

Hi

I am finding it difficult to start with CCS. I have gone through many older getting started guide and forum posting without much success. I have DRV8301-RM48-KIT and I need to set up test bench for PM BLDC motor with halbach sensors.

Can you please suggest where and how to start with (CCS step by step for tutorial Hercules RM48 with example code). If I am able to execute one example I will be able to build on that.

Many thanks in advance

Fasil

Fasil,

I've forwarded to the Hercules team to respond.

I would be starting with (not sure if this is the latest version, but what I have on my machine)

C:\ti\Hercules\MotorWare\v1.0.3.03\sw\solutions\foc_encoder_speed\boards\drv8301kit_revD\hercules\rm48l952\projects\ccs5\project01\docs\foc_encoder_speed_rm48.pdf

I guess what you need is a "hello world project" showing you how to setup the Hercules product step by step:

Go to:http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/Category:RM4

Search for:

Hercules_MCU_1Day_Training.pdf

Regards,

Haixiao

Fasil,

I am not sure what problem you are encountering.

Can you capture a screen shot?

Henry

Hi

Can you suggest an application note related to how PM BLDC (not PMSM) are controlled by TI algorithms ? Especially instaspin.

Kindly

Fasil

Hi Fasil

I think this one is good for you.

http://www.ti.com/lit/ug/spruhj1c/spruhj1c.pdf

Thanks.

Wilson Zuo

Motor Application Team

Hi Wilson

Thanks for the reply.

the document was focusing on induction motor and PMSM. I would like to know how trapezoidal BLDC motor with only 240 electrical degree excitation per phase being controlled by instaspin algorithm? How motor identification algorithms differentiate it from PMSM?

Kindly

Fasil

Fasil,

InstaSPIN-FOC treats sinusoidally wound and trapezoidally wound motors the same.  The ID doesn't care about the windings. Most BLDC motors actually have sinusoidal windings, so driving them with space vector (which the motor sees as sinusoids) is the most effecient.

However, if you DO have a trapezoidally wound motor, you will get better efficiency during operation from driving the motor with a trapezoidal waveform.  The motor wants to see voltages similar to its own Bemf for maximum torque produciton with minimum current use.

But even with this, if you are in a dynamic application with continuously varying loads or torque demands, the efficiency may be improved on a trapezoidal motor by using sinusoidal currents under field oriented control.  The dynamic torque response can typically offset some of the losses from sinusoid vs. trapezoid.

In a non dynamic application, where you have fixed loads or speeds, a trapezoidal control technique is preferred for a trapezoidal motor.

Hi Chris

Thank you for your reply

In one of the video shared by you (http://e2e.ti.com/support/applications/motor_drivers/f/38/t/168056.aspx)  and also, in InstaSPIN-BLDC Lab BLDC motor is driven with trapezoidal waveform. I am using DRV8301-RM48-KIT and I am planning to use the RM48-instaspin BLDC program for driving the motor in test bench. Whether the motor will be driven by sinusoidal or trapezoidal?  My motors are designed and supposed to be driven as trapezoidal one.

My activities are part of PhD study; therefore I cannot run my PM BLDC as PMSM as I need to study how my motor design performs with trapezoidal excitation (my focus area is motor design). I spent around three weeks trying to understand programming of evaluation kit; without much success. (It is really difficult for beginner!). That is why I decided to use demo program; even though what I needed is a hall sensor based drive.

Kindly

Fasil

"Whether the motor will be driven by sinusoidal or trapezoidal?"

InstaSPIN-BLDC uses a trapezoidal excitation / commuation.

"I spent around three weeks trying to understand programming of evaluation kit; without much success. (It is really difficult for beginner!). "

I have to agree. You should be able to follow the GUI out of the box and the source projects within a week, but it can be difficult for beginners.

"That is why I decided to use demo program; even though what I needed is a hall sensor based drive."

We don't focus much on hall sensor based designs. We find more value for ourselves with replacing hall sensors with software algorithms or using encoders/resolvers for more precise position control.

Is there a reason you choose the RM48 kit?  In general there is more motor control "support" by using a C2000 28x based device, especially for R&D / PhD / research.

Hi

Thank you

As I said my focus is only on motor design and project aims to replace existing PM BLDC motor on electric two wheeler with a more economical motor.  The existing motor uses hall sensor and I need to test that motor. The initial product survey for 50V, 50A drive shown only two boards (http://www.ti.com/lsds/ti/apps/motor/brushless_dc/product.page) supports sensor based operation.  Looking back, I should have selected DRV8301-HC-C2-KIT; but that kit was not  packaged with test motor.

Now that I will be able to drive my motor in trapezoidal mode using RM48 kit; I may buy F28035 Piccolo control CARD at a later date to use with 8301 KIT I have.

Once again thank you for your clarification

Kindly

Fasil

Yes, if using the F28035 with DRV8301 EVM I believe the current is scaled off of 60A.

When using the F28069M with DRV8301 EVM we use the external op-amps and we have this scaled off of 40A maximum for better resolution.

As long as you have Revision D of the board you can test out some different techniques/methods with the same based DRV8301 board.