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CCS/MOTORWARE: how to control salient motor with sensorless us ti motor control lib?

yanzhen fu
Genius 4005 points
Part Number: MOTORWARE
Other Parts Discussed in Thread: CONTROLSUITE, , INSTASPIN-BLDC, DRV10983

Tool/software: Code Composer Studio

HI

  I have a slient motor with integrate stator .   some one call that is a BLDC motor .   but need sensorless contorl style . 

first I try use HVkit  BLDC sensorless examle in Controlsuite .   but fail .  motor can not run in 6MOD module . then I try use lab1b and lab1c in motorware example  .   it is also fail .   in the end . I look lab21 .  But you know , lab21 is a low voltage example . I can not try at hight voltage motor (310V) . 

my quest is :  1 how can I contorl this motor use ti mcu .  and which example program i will use. 

                      2: motorware can not control squre ware BLDC , ? because FAST can not identify BLDC parameters. 

  • 0
    TI__Guru** 112660 points
    1. You might use lab02b/lab02c in motorWare, to identify the motor parameters, set the identified parameters in user.h, and then use lab10a or lab11a to spin the motor. The identification algorithm of InstaSPIN-FOC just supports SPM, but you could set the Ld and Lq parameters in user.h if you knew, the running algorithm could support salient motor with sensorless-FOC.
    2. InstaSPIN-FOC can be used square wave BLDC also though it is 180-sinusoidal wave control.

    Btw, you could use sensorless InstaSPIN-BLDC or sensorless trapezoidal control of BLDC Motors in controlSUITE if you want to use trapezoidal wave control.
    \ti\controlSUITE\development_kits\DRV830x-HC-C2-KIT_v105\InstaSPIN_BLDC
    \ti\controlSUITE\development_kits\HVMotorCtrl+PfcKit_v2.1\HVBLDC_Sensorless
  • 0 in reply to Yanming Luo
    Genius 4005 points
    Thanks , yanming Luo.
    but , there are problem I will say .
    first, lab2b, lab2c can not identify salient motor , because , motor can not run while identify processor . like it can not run in lab1b or lab1c.
    yes , I got Ld and Lq parameters. I will try these.
    second ,how do i use SPIN-FOC to run 180-sinusoidal wave? in this way , how can I get rotor position information ?

    best regards

    hunk fu
  • 0 in reply to yanzhen fu
    TI__Guru** 112660 points
    1. The instaSPIN will identify and spin the salient PMSM as a surface PMSM, and set both Ld and Lq to the same value, Ls. You need to tune the identification parameters in lab02b and lab02c, like USER_MOTOR_RES_EST_CURRENT, USER_MOTOR_IND_EST_CURRENT, USER_MOTOR_MAX_CURRENT and USER_MOTOR_FLUX_EST_FREQ_Hz in used.h base the spec. of motor. For lab01b and lab01c, you also need to set USER_MOTOR_FREQ_LOW, USER_MOTOR_FREQ_HIGH, USER_MOTOR_FREQ_MAX, USER_MOTOR_VOLT_MIN, and USER_MOTOR_VOLT_MAX based the spec. of motor.
    2. As above, instaSPIN-FOC spin the motor as a general SPMSM, the position angle will be estimated by FAST estimator using the motor currents and voltages.
  • 0 in reply to Yanming Luo
    Genius 4005 points
    hi , thanks Yanming
    YES， I know this option , but from lab02b, lab02c , tha same value is not correct parameter . salient PMSM ld and lq are not same value .

    I try it , lab2b /lab2c can not get salient motor ld/lq . maybe, there are anther way can do it .

    best regard
  • 0 in reply to yanzhen fu
    TI__Guru** 112660 points
    A mentioned above, instaSPIN-FO identifies the salient PMSM as a surface PMSM, so you will get the Ld and Lq are the same value, but the instaSPIN-FOC can spin the motor well, maybe the efficiency is no the best.
    Btw, you might set Ld and Lq in user.h if you know them, and then instaSPIN-FOC will spin the machine as salient PMSM.
  • 0 in reply to Yanming Luo
    Genius 4005 points
    thank you , Yanming , I will ask factory of motor for Ld and Lq.
  • 0 in reply to yanzhen fu
    Genius 4005 points
    hi yanming , I am sure that motorware foc can not run salient integrated stator motors ....! please try it .
  • 0 in reply to yanzhen fu
    TI__Guru** 112660 points
    InstaSPIN-FOC should be ok to spin salient interior permanent magnet motor (IPM) if you identify it in lab02a/b/c, and then run it in other projects with a right user.h. I have tried several IPM in the lab before, there is no a problem to spin it.
  • 0 in reply to Yanming Luo
    Genius 4005 points
    Yanming :
    I agree with you . but first we need identify in lab02a/b/c. salient motor can not pass these labs. because , iq ,id are not same . espacially HV motor , such as 310VDC in DCBUS. this can not identify . you can try it .
  • 0 in reply to yanzhen fu
    TI__Guru** 112660 points
    As replied to you, we have tested different motors that are IPM or SPM motor with LV or HV kit. Both types of motor can be identified and run well using instaSPIN-FOC though instaSPIN-FOC handles both types of a motor as SPM motor. Please tune the USER_MOTOR_FLUX_EST_FREQ_Hz, USER_MOTOR_RES_EST_CURRENT, and USER_MOTOR_IND_EST_CURRENT based on the spec. of your motor.
  • 0 in reply to Yanming Luo
    Genius 4005 points

    hi Yanming , thank for your reply .

    but ,  I want to say , your motors  are not intergrate stator .   your motor are  PMSM with IPM and SPM .     not BLDC  with IPM  and SPM.   if you have time ,you try BLDC  motor .  

    AND:

    if motor EMBF is not sinusodial ,   motorware can not do anything !    I track motorware from 2013 ,  and know how to identify motor parameters ,  but in BLDC motor , motorware is not suitable .

    best regard 

  • 0 in reply to yanzhen fu
    TI__Guru** 112660 points

    Though we didn't have an exact motor as you showed, we had tested many motors for motorWare, include SPM, IPM, BLDC motors, even the outer rotor motors which are used on washing machine and drone. Maybe the efficiency is not good for BLDC, but the instaSPIN-FOC could work well. Maybe, your motor is not a typical one as we tested, it can't be run with instaSPIN-FOC till now. We would like to improve the algorithm, but it must take some time.

  • 0 in reply to Yanming Luo
    Genius 4005 points
    hi: Yanming， thank you very much any way!

    I know motorware last version is 18. In my mind . motorware suitable industrial motor. but other type motor maybe it is not on it.
    for example . DRV10983 can control above BLDC, but motorware can not. DRV10983 just 24Vdc ,it is very very small array . that algorithm very common in real application not motorware ! I am not mean FOC. but " FAST " . motorware 's instapinFOC use FAST indentify motor's paremeters . but FAST can not suit different LD. LQ . so , that is problem !

    best regard
    !
  • 0 in reply to yanzhen fu
    TI__Guru** 112660 points
    As replied to you, the existing instaSPIN-FOC run IPM, SPM, BLDC as a PMSM using the Ld equals to Lq, especially the identification. We will improve this for all PMSMs as you mentioned. Thanks.