TPS65987D: dynamically switch source and sink in DRP mode.

Part Number: TPS65987D
Other Parts Discussed in Thread: TPS25751, TPS25730, TPS25751EVM

Tool/software:

looking for a simple solution to the following.

  1. A 2021 Apple iPad Mini 6 and that it has sink and source capabilities.
  2. I have the iPad and my device encased in a sealed housing.
  3. permanent USBC cable runs from iPad to my device to power my device
  4. a single USBC jack is exposed from the sealed unit which is only required to charge the iPad (no data connection required).

There are reasons to use an iPad instead of a battery pack that aren't relevant, but basically the iPad is acting as a battery that also needs to be recharged.

I am trying to assemble the device so that the iPad can both source and sink power automatically. I am not an USB expert and am really looking for a complete, simple, solution/example to copy. I would like it to be hardware configurable so that no i2c/programming/mcu is required.

Block diagram of the concept. My device requires 5v ~100ma from the iPad. Power can be cut off to my device (or not) while charging if necessary.

  1. connect an exposed USBC permanently to the USBC on the iPad so that it can be charged
  2. permanently connect the iPad USBC to my custom pcb and treat the iPad as a power source
  3. when I plug the charger into the exposed USBC, I want the iPad to switch from being a power source to being the power sink
  4. that "?" is whatever I need to provide enough intelligence to tell the iPad to switch from source to sink (and sink to source when the power is removed)
  5. I don't need any data handling, D+/- isn't connected. Power only.
  6. I tried to solve this already by putting a 5K1 on CC1 and using a P-Channel to disconnect that in the hopes of having the iPad change roles, but that isn't working the way we need it to. It's not switching roles. I think we need a more sophisticated solution.

My problem is being able to dynamically change the iPad from sink to source. Currently I have been manipulating the resistor for testing, but I require the iPad to react solely on whether the charger is plugged or unplugged into the external USBC.

  • Hi Michael, 

    Thank you for reaching out!

    Based on your requirements, a DRP PD controller such as the TPS25751 would be a great fit

    Is my understanding below correct?

     I only see one USB-C Port in your block diagram, but from your description, it seems you may need two ports:

    • Port 1: Type-C input (sink) from USB-C Power Adapter to power the system. Essentially this could be used to power the PD controller.
      • The TPS25730 is a sink-only PD controller best suited for barrel-jack replacement applications.
    • Port 2: Type-C DRP (Source/Sink) connected via Type-C cable to the IPad's Type-C port
      • As a source, the PD controller would provide power to charge the IPad 
      • As a sink, the PD controller would request power (5V/100mA) from the IPad and use that power as an input to your Device 
      • The TPS25751 is a DRP PD controller best suited for power applications.

    The TPS25751EVM is a great reference featuring both the TPS25730 and TPS25751 devices (see block diagram below)

    Please let me know if you have additional questions/concerns. 

    Best Regards, 

    Aya Khedr

  • Thanks! I downloaded the configuration software. I will order an EVM board, but I can't find any PCB reference files for the TPS25730 and TPS25751. Are there PCB/Schematic files I can download and use with Altium?

    edit: TPS25751EVM is out of stock everywhere.

    Individual PCB reference files for the TPS25730 and TPS25751 that I can combine for my application would be really helpful. I see the schematic/pcb images in the TPS25751EVM pdf, but I would like something that I can just import into Altium if possible.

    Since I am not doing any data or battery charging, it looks like this is close to what I require (grayed areas not needed)?

  • Hi Michael, 

    A couple questions on the block diagram: 

    1- I see that the EEPROM block is greyed out. How do you plan on loading the configuration onto the TPS25751? Will there be an MCU in your design?

    2- Could you elaborate more on your device requirements (5V/100mA)? 

    • Is it being powered from the Ipad? or from the PD controller's LDO3v3?
    • What is this device?

    Please accept my friend request so that I can share Altium files with you offline. 

    Best Regards, 

    Aya Khedr

    1. I'm still figuring out the device works. If EEPROM is required and part of the reference design then I will just include it. 
    2. My device if fairly simple, but includes a 3v3, 100ma COB-LED and an ESP32 processor. That is the majority of the active components.
    3. My device requires 3v3, 100ma. I am open to whatever the best option is. I was thinking power would come from the 5v iPad, but if PD controller LDO3v3 is a better option then I would do that. My device must work while the ipad is in source mode, but if my device also worked while the iPad is charging that would be a bonus.
    4. This is our first venture into using USBC as a power source, so it's new to everyone here as to what are the options.
  • Hello,

    Thank you for your inquiry. TI US is closed for Christmas. Please expect delayed responses this week.

    Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays!

  • Hi Michael, 

    We do not recommend powering your device from the PD controller's LDO3V3. 

    I would recommend powering the device from the 5V rail or the 3.3V rail if you would like for it to be powered when sourcing and sinking. 

    If it only needs to be powered when the PD is sinking, then I would suggest using the PD controller's PPHV. 

    Best Regards, 

    Aya Khedr 

  • That sounds good.

    1. Is the 5v rail PP5V?
    2. Is P3V3 the 3v3 rail?
    3. "when sourcing and sinking" is great. If I can have both, no reason not to.
    4. I can't find the Altium files, but I'm not sure where to look? I accepted the friend request previously.
      Please accept my friend request so that I can share Altium files with you offline. 

      I'm guessing my TPS25751 configuration file would look like the following:

      {
        "questionnaire": {
          "device": "TPS25751",
          "toolBuildVersion": "1.0.2",
          "answers": [
            null,
            1,
            4,
            0,
            0,
            0,
            3,
            0,
            0,
            1,
            1,
            null,
            0,
            0,
            0,
            0,
            0,
            0,
            0
          ],
          "vendorId": "0000",
          "productId": "0000",
          "version": "1.0.0.2"
        }
      }

  • Hi Michael, 

    1. Yes PP5V is the 5V input to the device's internal power path (source only)
    2. Yes P3V3 is the 3V3 input to power the IC
    3. Great. My recommendation would be to ensure that the external DCDC's output voltage/current is sufficient to power your device and the PD controller. 
    4. Thank you for accepting the request, I will send them to you early next week. 
    5. In the configuration file provided, the source capabilities is set to a maximum of 100W. Do you require 100W sourcing to the Ipad? 
      1. The TPS25751D has a 5V/3A internal power path (max 15W standalone). If you require sourcing >15W, an external DCDC would be needed to generate higher voltage/current levels. 

    Best Regards, 

    Aya Khedr 

  • Yes PP5V is the 5V input to the device's internal power path (source only)

    will I also get a 5v sink from the ipad when the external usb is disconnected? The goal is to have uninterrupted 5v whether external usbc is connected or not.

    ensure that the external DCDC's output voltage/current is sufficient to power your device and the PD controller. 

    my device only requires 3v3 @150mA

    In the configuration file provided, the source capabilities is set to a maximum of 100W. Do you require 100W sourcing to the Ipad? 
    1. The TPS25751D has a 5V/3A internal power path (max 15W standalone). If you require sourcing >15W, an external DCDC would be needed to generate higher voltage/current levels. 

    I am targeting the ipad mini6. I believe charging requirements for the ipad mini6 is 5v/3A.

  • Hi Michael, 

    will I also get a 5v sink from the ipad when the external usb is disconnected? The goal is to have uninterrupted 5v whether external usbc is connected or not.

    The TPS25751 can sink in a "dead-battery" condition (i.e. when external USB-C is disconnected). In this condition, the device would be powered from VBUS (from the IPad). 

    Note that PP5V will not be enabled in a dead-battery condition. 

    Please let me know if you have additional questions/concerns. 

    Best Regards, 

    Aya Khedr

  • The TPS25751EVM appears to be back in stock. Please let me know when the reference files are available.

    For production it would be better not to have to flash each TPS25751. Since I am not using a TI battery charger, will I need to flash the TPS25751? If flashing required for "dual role" or is that the default?  

  • Hi Michael, 

    I sent the files to you over private message.

    The TPS25751 is shipped empty, and requires an external EEPROM or MCU to load the configuration to the PD controller. 

    The Application Customization Tool (GUI) is used to generate the binary file needed to properly configure the PD controller with the desired behavior you would like to achieve for your application. See the TPS25751EVM User's Guide for more information on how to use the GUI tool. 

    Please let me know if you have further questions/concerns.