TDC1000-C2000EVM: Piezo electric ice monitoring

Hey Gautier,

What exactly are you trying to measure with the sensor with it encased/submerged in ice?  Are you trying to measure the depth/thickness of the ice?  Or are you trying to determine when the water transitioned from liquid to solid?  

Can the transducer not be mounted to the bottom of the acrylic container on the outside, or on the top?  More similar to Figure 5. Fluid Level Measurement Using Ultrasonic

Regards,

Jacob

Hey Jacob,

We trying to measure the depth/thickness of the ice. We goal is to able to measure that with a resolution below 1 mm. We have already testing the transducer to the bottom of the acrylic container on the outside. And it don't work. Also, in real application, it is not possible for us to mounted the transducer outside because this measure is for monitoring the depth/thickness of the ice for ice rink. And first, we want to find a solution submerged on the ice.

Do you think is it possible ? If yes, what is your recommandations for this application ?

Hey Gautier,

Ahh okay I understand.  Hopefully the transducer will eventually be mounted in a known location in the ice so you can measure only upward to get a consistent reading.  Or you could use two transducers and use one to measure to the bottom of the ice rink and another to measure up toward the air to sense the top of the ice and combine those readings to get the total thickness.  Your transducer will ideally need to be parallel to the surface you're measuring which might be a challenge with your prototype setup.  

Our ultrasonic expert is out today but will return tomorrow morning, I'll have him weigh in on if he thinks this is possible and if he has better recommendations. 

I did some research on threads about measuring ice with ultrasonic, but didn't find much to help us:

• TDC1000-7200EVM for measuring solids such as Ice - just discusses looking at the TDC1000-GASEVM for a 30V excitation design.  
• TDC1000-TDC7200EVM: Measuring TOF in ice - discusses some settings tested and has unexpected time of flight result.  Similar questions to your question but no good answers.  
• BOOSTXL-PGA460: Powering large ultrasonic transducer? - ultrasonic ranging system through 15 meters of ice.  Good discussion but not as applicable to your situation.  

So let's wait until tomorrow when my team's ultrasonic expert can weigh in.  

Regards,

Jacob

Hey Gautier,

Thanks for posting to the forum! I would not recommend the TDC1000 for this application. The reason being is that the TDC1000 produces a 5V signal to drive the transducer and while this works great for water when measuring solid object a significant portion of the signal does not make it through the object in this case the ice.

A larger voltage would maybe ensure you are getting more signal through to measure the ice but still might be difficult to do if you have a tank and then also a cube of ice to propagate the signal through. My main concern is that if there is an airgap between the ice at the tank that means the signal must propagate through, tank wall, air/water gap, then ice cube and perform the same path back. All the changes in transmission medium are very challenging to overcome with ultrasonic device.

Here is an FAQ on what devices we recommend for various applications: https://e2e.ti.com/support/sensors-group/sensors/f/sensors-forum/748143/faq-ultrasonic-sensors

Assuming there was not air/water gap, my recommendation would be to try this with the TUSS44x0 devices which allow you to generate a larger signal. The TUSS4440 is the recommended device here because the transformer can help you generate very large voltages, but the downside it cannot be driven at 1MHz for a better resolution. I think its important to identify if a larger transducer voltage would help you make  through the tank wall and the largest ice cube thickness requirement you may have for your system.

I hope this helps let me know if you have any questions!

Best,

Isaac

Hey Isaac,

Thanks for your help and for this informations. We will trying with the TUSS4440 to monitoring the depth/thickness of the ice. First, we trying to have a result with the evaluation board : https://www.ti.com/tool/BOOSTXL-TUSS4440

For your information the thickness of the ice do not exceed 40mm. Do you have any recommandation for piezo cell to have a better resolution as possible (below 1 mm) ? What references do you prefer ? Also, do you have a design guide to integrate this cell in a case fully waterproof ?

Thanks in advance for all your help. Kind Regards.

Hi Isaac,

Thanks a lot for this informations.

We just received the evaluation board BOOSTXL-TUSS4440 and MSP-EXP430F5529LP and followed the instructions at this link : https://www.ti.com/tool/BOOSTXL-TUSS4440

We use the UTR-1440K-TT-R cell that comes with the evaluation board. 

Also, we follow the user guide (https://www.ti.com/lit/ug/slau822a/slau822a.pdf?ts=1687177995015&ref_url=https%253A%252F%252Fwww.ti.com%252Ftool%252FBOOSTXL-TUSS4440) to properly connect the board and setup the software GUI. We flashing the program on the MSP-EXP430F5529LP and we have "Device Status" below :

The status of "VDRV Rdy" is 0. For normal operation this state should be 1.

We tried changing the JUMPER POSITIONS on the evaluation board BOOSTXL-TUSS4440 to use these Power Modes :

The status of "VDRV Rdy" stay at 0. Can you tell me how resolve this problem please ?

Thanks in advance for your help. Kind Regards.