• State TI Thinks Resolved
  • Locked Locked
  • Replies 13 replies
  • Answers 4 answers
  • Subscribers 33 subscribers
  • Views 193 views
  • Users 0 members are here
Support feedback
Options
Options
Similar topics

This thread has been locked.

If you have a related question, please click the "Ask a related question" button in the top right corner. The newly created question will be automatically linked to this question.

DS100DF410: Support need on temperature issues

Xenon Li
Intellectual 1505 points
Part Number: DS100DF410
Other Parts Discussed in Thread: DS110DF410, DS250DF410

Dear team,

Hope you are doing well!

Recently, my customer chose to use DS100DF410.

However, they found that the DS100DF410 interface may go up-down, which means that the DS100DF410 will have a short discontinuous or interruption during data transmission when the temperature have a quick change from -20℃ to 75℃(10℃ changing per minute, and the DS100DF410 works normal under the continuous high or low temperature status).

Have you ever met this kind of problem?

If so, how can we solve this problem? Can it be solved by setting the parameters for this temperatures changing quickly circumstance?

Really appreciate your help and support!

I'm looking forward to your reply.

Best regards,

Xenon Li

  • 0
    TI__Mastermind 19135 points

    Hi Xenon,

    In your email you mention that the ambient temperature is changing from -20C to 75C during the system testing. Do you know what the retimer board temperature is for this ambient case?

    Please note that, as per datasheet, the DS110DF410 temperature lock range (TLR) is 90C. The customer appears to be exceeding this temperature delta during their testing. Unfortunately this older part number has smaller TLR than newer products such as the 25G retimers.

    Thanks,

    Rodrigo Natal

  • 0 in reply to Rodrigo Natal
    TI__Intellectual 1505 points

    Dear Rodrigo,

    Really appreciate your help!

    1. The datasheet mentioned that operating temperature is from -40C to 85C. Does this mean the ambient temperature?

    2. As for the TLR, I haven't found the content you provided shown as the picture above in the datasheet. The tested temperature is from -5C to 85C which is a 90C range. Does this mean that the maximum temperature changing range is 90C, which can also support the voltage changing from -25C to 65C for example?

    Thanks a lot!

    Best regards,

    Xenon Li

  • 0 in reply to Xenon Li
    TI__Mastermind 18931 points

    Hi Xenon,

    Xenon Li said:
    1. The datasheet mentioned that operating temperature is from -40C to 85C. Does this mean the ambient temperature?

    Yes this refers to the ambient temperature.

    Xenon Li said:
    2. As for the TLR, I haven't found the content you provided shown as the picture above in the datasheet. The tested temperature is from -5C to 85C which is a 90C range. Does this mean that the maximum temperature changing range is 90C, which can also support the voltage changing from -25C to 65C for example?

    The temperature lock range is the temperature over which the retimer can maintain CDR lock.  When this range is exceeded, we anticipate that the retimer may temporarily lose CDR lock.  You are correct that a change from -25C to 65C would also meet the 90C TLR.  Do you lose CDR lock over this temperature range?  You also mentioned that the link issue occurs over quick temperature changes.  Do you also experience link issues over slower temperature changes?

    Thanks,

    Drew

  • 0 in reply to Drew Miller1
    TI__Intellectual 1505 points

    Dear Drew,

    Thanks for your reply and support!

    1. The link lose occurred when the temperature quickly changed from -20C to 75C, which is exceeded the 90C range and only part of the DS100DF410 would lose the link. Maybe this is the reason that caused the link lost.

    2. The link would not lose when the temperature keep constant at -20C or 75C.

    3. By the way, is there any method like changing the parameters of resistors or other components on the circuit that can enlarge the 90C TLR range?

    Really appreciate!

    Best regards,

    Xenon Li

  • 0 in reply to Xenon Li
    TI__Mastermind 18931 points

    Hi Xenon,

    1) I think that exceeding the 90C range does contribute to the loss of link.  I'm also curious if temperature is ramped slowly over the same temperature range if you observe this issue.  However, regardless of behavior during a slow temperature ramp, I'm not aware of any solutions to better handle this quick temperature change.

    3) I'm not aware of any modifications that can be made to extend the TLR of our 10G retimers.  A step we could take to further debug this issue would be to see if HEO/VEO is affected over temperature or if the issue is just the CDR unlocking from the signal.  If there is an interest in pursuing this, I would recommend reading the HEO/VEO from the retimer and the CDR status (registers 0x01 and 0x02 would be helpful) as the device temperature is changed.  Additionally, it would be valuable to know the RX settings before and after an unlock condition.  Specifically, EQ can be read from 0x03, and DFE taps from registers 0x11, 0x12, 0x20, 0x21.

    Thanks,

    Drew

  • 0 in reply to Drew Miller1
    TI__Intellectual 1505 points

    Dear Drew,

    Thanks a lot for your support and reply!

    By the way, if the TLR is 90C to DS100x products, which is smaller than that of 25G products that Rodrigo mentioned before, what the TLR is to the 25G retimer like DS250DF410?

    Really appreciate!

    Best regards,

    Xenon Li

  • 0 in reply to Xenon Li
    TI__Mastermind 18931 points

    Hi Xenon,

    The DS250DF410 is rated for 115C on a negative ramp and 125C on a positive ramp.

    Thanks,
    Drew

  • 0 in reply to Drew Miller1
    TI__Intellectual 1505 points

    Dear Drew,

    Thanks a lot!

    Does DS110x also has the ramp rate corresponding with the temperature lock range like the figure shown upside?

    Thanks again!

    Best regards,

    Xenon Li 

  • 0 in reply to Xenon Li
    TI__Mastermind 18931 points

    Hi Xenon,

    There is not a ramp rate associated with this specification in the datasheet.  There might be some practical limit to this as I suspect that a near instantaneous temperature change of 90C could be challenging to maintain lock over, but this is not described in the datasheet.

    Thanks,
    Drew

  • 0 in reply to Drew Miller1
    TI__Intellectual 1505 points

    Dear Drew, 

    Thanks a lot!

    The DS250 and DS280 series have better temp range than DS100 series does. 

    Does the redriver and buffer of DS250 and DS280 series have same TLR like DS250/280DFx series?

    Thanks for your support!

    Best regards,

    Xenon

  • 0 in reply to Xenon Li
    TI__Mastermind 18931 points

    Hi Xenon,

    Our redrivers do not have a TLR specification since they do not have CDR functionality.

    Thanks,
    Drew

  • 0 in reply to Drew Miller1
    TI__Intellectual 1505 points

    Dear Drew,

    Got it! Thanks a lot!

    By the way, how can I find how to set CTLE to enhance the signal quality for DS110DF410 in order to find a way to solve the signal up down issue?

    Best regards,

    Xenon 

  • 0 in reply to Xenon Li
    TI__Mastermind 18931 points

    Hi Xenon,

    CTLE is automatically adapted while using adapt mode 1.  Whenever CDR unlock/lock occurs, CTLE is re-adapted.  Please see section 3.20 of the programming guide for instructions on manually setting the CTLE.

    https://www.ti.com/lit/an/snla323/snla323.pdf

    Thanks,
    Drew