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CD4027B: automotive qualification

Yoshikazu Kawasaki
Intellectual 630 points
Part Number: CD4027B
Other Parts Discussed in Thread: TPLD1201, TPLD1201-Q1

Tool/software:

Hello,

My customer uses automotive qualified JK-FF of OnSemi.  They looked through TI web pages, but there is no Q1 devices for JK-FF.  They only know OnSemi who can support automotive products for JK-FF, but would you have possibility of developing CD4027B-Q1 in the near future by any chance?  Or will you have automotive qualification devices similar function to CD4027B?

Best Regards,

Yoshikazu Kawasaki

  • 0
    Guru 267950 points

    As far as I can see, TI sells J-K flip-flops only to support legacy applications. A new -Q1 device would be created only if there were enough sales to make it profitable.

    If having a second source is important for your customer, they should design their circuits to use more common flip-flops (D-type or integrated shift registers).

  • 0
    TI__Genius 17470 points

    Hi Yoshikazu,

    Right now we are not developing a Q1 JK flip flop. In addition a lot of these CD4000 devices are slowly being phased out entirely. If there was a large enough business case it could be done but I don't think the market is that large (if you have a very large business case, feel free to email us).

    Best,

    Malcolm

  • 0 in reply to Clemens Ladisch
    Intellectual 630 points

    Hello Clemens-san,

    Thank you for your quick reply.  I looked at the datasheet of CD4027B to check if common devoices(i.e. RS-FF with logics) can be equivalent to CD4027B, but it would be difficult because it has Q=\Q=1 at S=R=1.  It's not a common JK-FF.  Would you please suggest me some examples of the equivalent circuit by using common Q1 devices?

    Best Regards,

    Yoshikazu Kawasaki

  • 0 in reply to Malcolm Lyn
    Intellectual 630 points

    Hello Malcom-san,

    The expected volume would be 10k/m for 6 years, so it would be around 700k or so in total.  Do you think it's good enough for Q1 qualification?  If yes, how long would it take to release CD4027B-Q1?

    Best Regards,

    Yoshikazu Kawasaki

  • 0 in reply to Yoshikazu Kawasaki
    TI__Genius 17470 points

    Hi Yoshikazu,

    Probably not, since in this case we are more likely to just develop a completely new JKFF instead of qualifying the CD4027B. 

    You could use a DFF and discrete automotive logic gates to achieve a JKFF through the circuit below:

    If board space is a concern, you could also look into TPLD1201 to consolidate these gates into a single part.

    Best,

    Malcolm

  • 0 in reply to Malcolm Lyn
    Intellectual 630 points

    Hello Malcom-san,

    Thank you very much for your quick reply and your proposal.  I see neither SET nor RESET pins, but how would it have outputs Q=\Q=1 by this?  CD4027B has such status when SET=RESET=1.

    Best Regards,

    Yoshikazu Kawasaki

  • 0 in reply to Yoshikazu Kawasaki
    TI__Genius 17470 points

    Hi Yoshikazu,

    Sorry, I glossed over that portion on my first read. It would not have outputs defined as the above. For a feature like this you are probably locked into a MCU or something similar. I will ask tomorrow about the likelihood of automotive qualification for this device.

    Best,

    Malcolm

  • 0 in reply to Malcolm Lyn
    Intellectual 630 points

    Hello Malcom-san,

    Thank you for your quick reply again.  OK, I'll wait for your next reply, but it would be quite difficult or I should say impossible even using the common Q1 devices for having the outputs Q=\Q=1 since \Q is inverted output of Q.

    Best Regards,

    Yoshikazu Kawasaki

  • 0 in reply to Yoshikazu Kawasaki
    TI__Genius 17470 points

    Hi Yoshikazu,

    We won't qualify the CD4000 device for automotive. I think for this application you could look into our TPLD devices. We have an upcoming automotive version planned. You could configure a JK flip flop in the internals and set the initial outputs Q = /Q = 1. This is probably your best bet if you are not using a microcontroller. See here:

    TPLD1201 data sheet, product information and support | TI.com

    Let me know if you have any other questions.

    Best,

    Malcolm

  • 0 in reply to Malcolm Lyn
    Intellectual 630 points

    Hello Malcolm-san,

    Thank you very much for your confirmation.

    Would you please tell me when I could expect TPLD12-1-Q1 for non NDA customers?  I don't disclose the information until TPLD1201-Q1 is available on the web page.

    I'm asking which states they need for their system to check if we could still propose alternatives by using common Q1 devices.  I may ask you to check it my proposal would be appropriate.

    Best Regards,

    Yoshikazu Kawasaki

  • 0 in reply to Yoshikazu Kawasaki
    Intellectual 630 points

    Hello Malcolm-san,

    I got their reply which states their system requires and show those in the attached.  Would you please check the attached and give me your comments and input your suggestion if you have?

    CD4027B_Alternatives_2024July12.pptx

    Best Regards,

    Yoshikazu Kawasaki

  • 0 in reply to Yoshikazu Kawasaki
    TI__Genius 17470 points

    Hi Yoshikazu,

    I spoke to some members on my team and we would need to establish an NDA to disclose more information. Is there some sort of regional field office you could get in touch with?

    The proposal given in the powerpoint looks similar to what I was suggesting earlier and I believe it would work given the customer doesn't mind a discrete/not integrated solution.

    Best,

    Malcolm

  • 0 in reply to Malcolm Lyn
    Intellectual 630 points

    Hello Malcolm-san,

    Thank you very much for your supporting me, but TPLD1201-Q1 would be more expensive than common logic devices with SH74HCS74-Q1, so I don't think it would be beneficial for the customer to establish NDA.

    I think it would be the best solution for now for the non NDA customers.  We'll propose the solution.  You can close this thread and I'll open a new one if needed.

    Best Regards,

    Yoshikazu Kawasaki