Input source Power management

Hi,
Thanks for your reply. Plz, check the attached file for a better understanding of what I am looking for. I think BQ24133 or a similar device can do the job but still, I am confused about many points.
1: When I connect the PD adapter directly with a wireless charger. It enters into fast charging mode because it is PD enabled. Now I can't simply connect power rails with the wireless charger and expect it to charge in fast mode. Maybe I am wrong.
2: I don't want to get power from a custom PCB when the adapter will present for the dock station. How I can bypass it? While dock station should get power from custom PCB when an adapter is not present. The Custom PCB is connected with the dock station through power rails only at one terminal.
3: The dock station is capable to charge devices in fast mode when the PD adapter is present. How will get this feature when the battery will connect with the system?

BLOC DIAGRAM.pdf

Hi Ali,

I do not understand what you are trying to do with the wireless charger.  How does the 4.2V battery get charged?  When is the battery discharged, only to power the wireless charger?

Regardless, we only have 2 types of battery chargers, those like the BQ24133 with traditional power path, and those with NVDC powerpath.  The NVDC powerpath devices, like BQ25792, provide a SYS rail = higher of user set minimum system voltage or final battery regulation voltage (e.g.4.2).  The BQ24133 is standalone, meaning configured with external resistors, while the BQ25792 requires a host processor to set I2C registers.

Regards,

Jeff   

Hi @Jeff
Let me explain to you in more detail.
I have a single cell lipo battery as a backup source. I have PD adapter as a primary input power source which will attach with Dock station.
When adapter will be connected then power from dock station will share with custom PCB(Directly connect PD adapter rails with custom PCB). Now custom PCB will have some battery charging IC, step up/down converter which will charge the lipo battery and also share the PD adapter power with the wireless charger. If you are getting confuse with charger then assume there is a device which require 5V 3A input power.

Now in the 2nd case, the adapter is not present. I have to get the whole system power from battery. The custom PCB will step up lipo battery voltage to provide it to both dock station and charger. As soon, the adapter power come back. The system will switch back to primary power source.
Mainly, I  have two devices which consumes power i.e. Dock station and wireless charger.
I hope it answered all your questions.

As you know the PD adapter can provide power upto 30 to 60W. I need an IC similar to BQ24133 which can handle that much power during sharing in different cases.
Thanks

Hi Jeff,
Thanks for all your help. I hope I am not annoying you with my stupid questions. Actually, It is my first design with PD controllers and I am a bit confused. I created a rough sketch of how the whole system work to explain further.
I have the following questions if you can answer them plz.

1. I have two different input Sink devices connected with my PCB while single input power source i.e. Adapter or Battery. What I should add further in the system so it can distribute a single source supply to two different sink devices.
2. Did I create the correct sketch? Most probably, I will translate it in the same way in my design.

Thanks for all your reviews and suggestions

.1680.SCH.pdf 

Dear Ali,

I will get back to you by next Tuesday.

Thanks,

Mike Emanuel

Ok, I will wait for your feedback

Hi Ali,

Mike and I support the chargers and are not USB protocol experts.  Mike and our USB-C team developed a reference design using the BQ25792 charger and TPS25750 port controller.  The BQ25792 is an NVDC charger that does not pass through the input power to the system but rather provides the higher of a minimum voltage or the battery voltage to the system.  In other words, the charger’s converter must pass both the system current and the charger current.  The ref design is at the link below.  
https://www.ti.com/tool/USB-PD-CHG-EVM-01

Please review this and then we can decide if we need to get the USB team involved.  

Regards,

Jeff

Hi Jeff
I noticed that this IC is I2C based and I don't want to get involved in the programming part. Can i use it standalone or i have to set up the register settings of this IC? If yes, then i want to avoid it. Is there any other alternative to it?

The BQ25792 charger requires I2C but the TPS25750 firmware does most of the communication.

I studied the datasheet. I noticed the following points. Correct me if I am wrong

1. Input support PD input feature. It can connect with a PD adapter to adjust input voltages according to the load 
2. It can charge a lipo battery and provide an output when the input source will not present by converting battery voltages to PD compatible output
3. It can provide output to only one sink device
4. I searched about PD pinout for USB C and found that it required only CC pins along with the power to adjust the voltage and current of the system. I am not sure about it but read in an article TI posted.
   
   Thanks
   
   

Can we ask some USB Expert to help me to figure out this solution?
I have to provide power to two sink devices. I need communication with the input PD adapter to adjust voltages according to sink demand. I need to convert battery voltage to PD output voltages for both devices same as the input PD adapter.

Hi Chuck Branch
The TPS65987 is out of stock. That's the reason, I skipped designing my own dock station and bought OTS. Now I am again at the same stage.
Can you suggest to me some other alternatives?
Thanks

Hi Chuck Branch
I found stock. I started to design. I will keep you in the loop during design. Maybe i need some guidelines about starting points

Hi Chuck Branch
I created the block diagram. I believe that I am on the right track now. Can you review it plz>?
I don't need any TBT or Display port feature. I just have to bypass the input power supply to the two different sink devices.
Thanks
6445.BLOCK DIAGRAM.pdf

Ali,

I am going to transifer this over to our Marketing engineer so that he can help you with part selection.

Hello,

Looking at your block diagram, will there be two Type-C ports for the sink devices? Why I ask is that the TPS65987D is a single port PD controller so if you are wanting to implement two Type-C PD ports, your best bet would be to use the TPS65988 which is a dual port PD controller

Adam Mc Gaffin
Thanks for your reply.
Yes, there are two USB C ports with different ratings i.e. 15W PD Enabled and 60W PD Enabled. I will use TPS65988 in that case.
I was thinking those are two ports lines PP_HVX. I am also a bit confused that how the input adapter wiring should connect with the input of the PD controller while charging the circuit in the loop.
How the power will negotiate between PD control and PD input Adapter? Or i just provide 5V VBus to PD controller and it negotiates with the sink devices on its own?
Thanks

Hi Adam Mc Gaffin
As I don't need a Display port or USB A port. So I should skip (HD3SS3412 and TUSB8020) parts in the EVM reference design. I only need to provide power paths to sink devices connected to my board.
Thanks

Updated Block Diagram
7723.BLOCK DIAGRAM.pdf

Yes, since you do not need either of those features and only care about the power, you can ignore those devices.

Also, for the other bottom Type-C port connected to the battery charger, you will also need to have a PD controller here as well. You can look at the TPS25750, specifically the following reference design which can be paired with a battery charger directly. 

www.ti.com/.../USB-PD-CHG-EVM-01

Yes, I was discussing it with Malik Barton57. He mentioned me system like that to make it work.
.
I checked the TPS65988 EVM schematic and user guide and I noticed that EVM used a DC barrel jack and different converter for different voltages levels i.e 5V, 9V,20V, etc. I am also open to using it instead of a PD adapter. Is that the option, I can use in my application instead of a USB C-based adapter?

Yes that block diagram would work. You would still need some sort of DCDC to provide the needed power to the donwstream type c device. So referring to the TPS65988EVM, instead of the barrel jack providing the 20V to the DCDC, you would have the Type-C port controlled by the TPS25750 provide the 20V

Hi Adam Mc Gaffin
Can you provide me with the part number for TPS65988? I am following EVM as a reference design but I couldn't find the part number mentioned in the BOM list.
Thanks

Also, if you can help me to understand the difference between these three-part numbers.

Hi Adam Mc Gaffin
Thanks for the part number information. Is it possible if you can provide me PCB design files for EVM or at least schematic pdf only? The EVM guideline schematic isn't very good in resolution. Most TI EVM board design files are available but  I could not find this one.
Thanks

Hi Adam Mc Gaffin
I have a quick question regarding input power negotiating.
I the EVM, we have a Variable power supply after the DC jack. I believe that by controlling MOSFET switching, the desired input voltage is selected by TPS65988 for output ports.
Now my question is about the PD input adapter. If I will use the PD adapter then definitely, I don't need variable supplies because the PD adapter can provide negotiated voltage on its own.
How this communication will take place?
In EVM, there is no such communication but TPS65988 setup voltages on its own at input according to the output requirements. Am I correct?

Thanks for your reply.
Much appreciated

Hi Adam Mc Gaffin
I am moved back to DC adapter design to make things simple. Can you help me to select the DC power jack attached to the EVM Board? I couldn't find it on main distributor website and I also don't know what particular parameters are considered while choosing this jack except current 10A and Voltage rating <=50V.
Is there any other parameter that I should consider?
What is the function of the Sense pin in that connector?
PD1135-509-7F

Hi Ali,

Personally I would not recommend using this connector type on your system. You highlighted the main limitation which is the fact that it is incredibly difficult to source. Our team has a large storage of these which is why we continue to use it. 

Using the TPS25750 on the sink only port would not add that much complexity to your design. From a procurement perspective, it will likely be easier since Type-C connectors will be much easier to source than this barrel jack. 

Thanks for the reply.
With that said, I have to take input from a USB C adapter and pass it to the TPS25750. Then the output of TPS25750 to the TPS65988.
 In this way, I have to use it in the following ways.

1. TPS25750 is always in sink mode. It will receive input power through a USB C port

Can you send me a schematic of TPS25750 with BOM for its EVM? I found two EVM boards. It seems to me that both have the same circuit with a little difference in battery charging IC or TIVA circuit configuration with one of them.

Adam Mc Gaffin
Should I follow this EVM reference design as a start?
https://www.ti.com/tool/TIDA-050047
I can also see all required files on this link.

Hi Adam Mc Gaffin
I studied further and got almost everything but I still have some doubts regarding communication between TPS65988. Here is my understanding so far.

1. The TPS25750 will negotiate power for a battery charger(BQ25792) with an adapter and set up charging voltage and current based on the profile saved in EEPROM using GUI.
2. The TPS65988 will set up sink ports voltages and current by negotiating with the input source connected.

• Now my question is how TPS65988 will negotiate the desired sink profile with the input source?. As in my case, it will be the system output from BQ25792.
  Also, What are the Aardvark connector and internal debug connector on BQ_EVM?
• What will be the system output range from BQ25792?
• Can I set up BQ25792 for the 1S battery because it is mentioned that EVM is for 2s to 4S?

See the attached figure.
Thanks
BLOCK.pdf

Yes,
This makes more sense now.
Thanks for your reply.
I am about to complete the schematic till BQ25792. As soon, I will complete the schematic. I  will send you for a review. Thanks for all your assistance sir.
Really appreciate it.

Hi Ali,

Glad I was able to help. Feel free to share the schematic whenever it is ready for review 

Hi Adam Mc Gaffin
Can you send me the updated BOM of TPS65988EVM plz?
The BOM given in the User guide does not match many components. For example, U9 given at BOM is TPS62097RWKR while used TLV62568DRLR in the schematic. There are also some different designators than actual schematic which is bit confusing.
Thanks

Hi Adam Mc Gaffin
I attached the schematic of the board. It is actually the combination of two EVM boards i.e. tps68988 and tps25750. I didn't connect the output of tps25750 with tps65988 because I have some questions. But can you review it Plz?
POWER DISTRIBUTION BOARD.pdf

Ali,

Our US team and India team will be out of the office on Holiday until Monday April 18th.

You will receive a response on Monday

Chuck Branch Adam Mc Gaffin
Any update sir about the review of Schematic. I am also worried about the cost of components of TI. I just received a quotation from my PCB supplier which is insanely high.
I also need help getting the quotation of all the components of TI for this project.
I can share the BOM of the project. 
Also, if any components are not in stock then how we can replace them with some other. It will be a huge disaster for me if I have to change the main ICs or wait till 2024 to get it.
My first batch order target quantities are 500pcs to 2000pcs. I am open to any suggestions regarding this.
Thanks a lot for all your help.