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BQ27520-G4: Learning cycle was fail

user6229777

Intellectual 700 points

Part Number: BQ27520-G4
Other Parts Discussed in Thread: BQSTUDIO, GPCCHEM, BQ24172

I conducted Learning Cycle.
But that was fail.
Could you tell me why that wat fail.

The attached file(Packed_Data.zip) is the log during the Learnig Cycle.
    file1.xlsx:This is log data from Battery management Studio during Learning Cycle.
   200605_ggfile.gg.csv:This is the gg file after conducting Learnig Cycel
   GPC_Tool_200531.zip: This is the data I submitted to GPC Tool to get my best Chemical ID.
   GPC_Tool_200531-report.zip:This is the reply from GPC Tool of the above data.

Packed_Data.zip

over 5 years ago

0 Wyatt Keller over 5 years ago in reply to user6229777

TI__Guru** 105740 points

Hello Yuichi,

Let us know if you are successful with the new ChemID you have programmed.

Sincerely,

Wyatt Keller

0 user6229777 over 5 years ago in reply to Wyatt Keller

Intellectual 700 points

Dear Wyatt

I've completed the learning cycle with the new gg file.
I'm afraid that it seems not to be successful.
Could you tell me what is wrong?

The attached materials are log file, gg file after learning cycle and graph with the data getting from bqStudio during it.
Ver11.zip

Thanks
Best Regards,
Yuichi Tsutsui

0 Kang Kang over 5 years ago in reply to user6229777

TI__Mastermind 24870 points

Hello Yuichi-san,

The Update Status is 0x00. Your procedure looks correct, but I don't think you sent the IT_Enable and Reset command in the beginning.

Thanks!

0 user6229777 over 5 years ago in reply to Kang Kang

Intellectual 700 points

Dear Kang-san

Thank you for your reply.

I did the learning cycle at the beginning of it as the attached material.
Is it correct?

before 1st discharge.pptx

Thanks
Best Regards,
Yuichi Tsutsui

0 user6229777 over 5 years ago in reply to user6229777

Intellectual 700 points

Dear Kang-san

I'm ready to do the learning cycle again.
The attached material is the dashboard of baStudio after sending RESET command and IT_ENABLE command.
If there is a concern about the successful learning cycle, I will start to do that.
Once you get back to me, I will start it.
So please let me know if there is any concern.

Thanks
Best Regards,
Yuichi Tsutsui

0 Kang Kang over 5 years ago in reply to user6229777

TI__Mastermind 24870 points

Hello Yuichi-san,

Yes, please proceed.

Thanks!

0 user6229777 over 5 years ago in reply to Kang Kang

Intellectual 700 points

Dear Kang-san

Thank you for your reply.
I will proceed it this morning, but RUP_DIS bit became low(Green).
On the dashboard I share, the bit was high(Red).

When I start to proceed the learning cycle, which state it should be?

Thanks
Best Regards,
Yuichi Tsutsui

0 user6229777 over 5 years ago in reply to user6229777

Intellectual 700 points

Dear Kang-san

I've completed the learning cycle with sending reset and IT enable command before 1st discharge.
The log file and gg.file are the attached materials.
Please confirm them.
I think this would be not successful.
I hope that you find out what step is not correct.
If you have the data you need, please let me know.
Ver11_2nd.zip

Thanks
Best Regards,
Yuichi Tsutsui

0 user6229777 over 5 years ago in reply to user6229777

Intellectual 700 points

Dear Kang-san

In my gg.file, Load Mode was "0".
This default setting is "1". So I change this to "1" and I started to conduct the learning cycle.
Is this the cause for not success learning cycle?
The attached file is the new gg.file.

Thanks
Best Regards,

Yuichi Tsutsui

0 Kang Kang over 5 years ago in reply to user6229777

TI__Mastermind 24870 points

Hello Yuichi-san,

Can you make sure to dump a gg.csv file after the cycling?

Update Status needs to be 0x04.

Thanks!

0 user6229777 over 5 years ago in reply to Kang Kang

Intellectual 700 points

Dear Kang-san

Yes, I can.
But now the learning cycle is proceeding with the new gg.file.
I will send the gg.csv file on next Monday.

I have a question about Update status.
In gg.csv file, there are 4 Update Status bit.
Which Update Status bit is the one you mean?
200820.gg.csv

Thanks
Best Regards,
Yuichi Tsutsui

0 Kang Kang over 5 years ago in reply to user6229777

TI__Mastermind 24870 points

Hello Yuichi-san,

Make sure to change all the update status bits.

0 user6229777 over 5 years ago in reply to Kang Kang

Intellectual 700 points

Dear Kang-san

Thank you for your reply.

It is OK. I'll confirm all the update status bits.

The document which is SLUA902 says that update status will become 00 -> 01 -> 02 during learning cycle.
The document which is SLUA903 says that update status will become 00 -> 04 -> 05 -> 06 during it and Update status should be set to 02 before saving the Golden file.
And you said Update status need to be 04 after learning cycle.
Which state is correct?

And SLUA903 says learning cycle is 1st discharge and relax -> send 0x21 and 0x41 command -> 1st charge and relax -> 2nd discharge and relax.
And you said it is send 0x21 and 0x41 command -> 1st discharge and relax -> 1st charge and relax -> 2nd discharge and relax.
Which sequence is correct?

And I need to start 2nd discharge and relax from this morning.
So I can send the gg.csv.file and log-file tomorrow.

Thanks
Best Regards,
Yuichi Tsutsui

0 user6229777 over 5 years ago in reply to user6229777

Intellectual 700 points

Dear Kang-san

I've finished the learning cycle with the new gg.csv.
But all update status bits didn't change.
Please help me...

The following materials are log.file during learning cycle and gg.csv after it.

Thanks
Best Regards,
Yuichi Tsutsui

0 Kang Kang over 5 years ago in reply to user6229777

TI__Mastermind 24870 points

Hello Yuichi-san,

I think you didn't send IT enable and a reset command. Please repeat the cycle with these two commands sent at the beginning of the cycle.

0 user6229777 over 5 years ago in reply to Kang Kang

Intellectual 700 points

Dear Kang Kang san

Thank you for your reply.

I am aware that I am sending two commands, but I will try again.
Before starting learning cycle, I'd like to confirm the procedure.
The following material is the procedure.
Could you confirm where it is correct or not?
Lerning_Cycle_Procefure_200907.pptx

Thanks
Best Regards,
Yuichi Tsutsui

0 Kang Kang over 4 years ago in reply to user6229777

TI__Mastermind 24870 points

Hello Yuichi-san,

Yes, I believe it is correct.

Thanks!

0 user6229777 over 4 years ago in reply to Kang Kang

Intellectual 700 points

Dear Kang Kang-san

I did the learning cycle after sending RESET and TI ENABLE command.
The following are the log-file during learning cycle and gg-file after it.
Is the learning cycle success? Please confirm it.
201008.zip

Thanks,
Best regards

Yuichi Tsutsui

0 Kang Kang over 4 years ago in reply to user6229777

TI__Mastermind 24870 points

Hello Yuichi-san,

According to this log file and gg file, you did not send the IT Enable command successfully.

I'll see if we can compute Qmax and Ra for you offline.

For now, please repeat the learning cycle.

0 user6229777 over 4 years ago in reply to Kang Kang

Intellectual 700 points

Dear Kang Kang-san

Thank you for computing.

I'll repeat the learning cycle.
I sent the IT Enable command and check it as the attached material.
How do you judge it is success or not?

Lerning_Cycle_Procefure_201008_02.pptx

Thanks,
Best Regards
Yuichi Tsutsui

0 Kang Kang over 4 years ago in reply to user6229777

TI__Mastermind 24870 points

Hello Yuichi-san,

The update status is not 0x01 but 0x00.

I will compute Qmax and Ra tables from your file, but in the mean time, please send me the gg file after you send 0x01.

Thanks!

0 user6229777 over 4 years ago in reply to Kang Kang

Intellectual 700 points

Dear Kang Kang-san

You said that the update status (of my gg file?) is not 0x01 but 0x00, and send the gg file after you send 0x01, but I didn't quite understand what you mean.

I think all of the update status of the gg file I send you is 0x00, is it correct?
Is sending 0x01 sending sending IT_ENABLE command? I think this command is 0x21.

Thanks,
Best Regards
Yuichi Tsutsui

0 Wyatt Keller over 4 years ago in reply to user6229777

TI__Guru** 105740 points

Hello Yuichi,

We are in the process of calculating your Ra and Qmax values to verify why you aren't getting a successful learning cycle.

Sorry for the delay.

Sincerely,

Wyatt Keller

0 user6229777 over 4 years ago in reply to Wyatt Keller

Intellectual 700 points

Dear Wyatt-san

Thank you for your reply.

I'm looking forward to getting your feedback.

Thanks,
Best Regards
Yuichi Tsutsui

0 Wyatt Keller over 4 years ago in reply to user6229777

TI__Guru** 105740 points

Hello Yuichi,

I have been reviewing your data, it looks like you may not be reaching the full 90% DOD change the gauge needs to learn, try to charge the battery all the way to manufacturers specification before starting discharge, it looks like it rested to around 4050mV on your last learning cycle, and reviewing the chemistry ID that already puts your starting point at 8% DOD.

Sincerely,

Wyatt Keller

0 user6229777 over 4 years ago in reply to Wyatt Keller

Intellectual 700 points

Dear Wyatt-san

Thank you for your reviewing.

I think that to rest to around 4050mV satisfies the manufacturers specification.
The battery pack I'm using has two batteries connected in series.
But BQ27520 is for single battery.
So the voltage of the battery is divided to 1/2 and input to this IC.
Thus charging at 4050mV means the battery pack is charged at 8100mV.
This charging voltage is the manufacturers specification.
What should I do under these situation?

Thanks,
Best Regards
Yuichi Tsutsui

0 Wyatt Keller over 4 years ago in reply to user6229777

TI__Guru** 105740 points

Hello Yuichi,

Is this a premade pack? the pack may be recommended to less voltage to increase cycle life or for their internal protection, which still may not be enough change in DOD to get an update.

Did you cycle the pack and use a max voltage of 8100mV to submit to the GPPCHEM tool?

Sincerely,

Wyatt Keller

0 user6229777 over 4 years ago in reply to Wyatt Keller

Intellectual 700 points

Dear Wyatt-san

Thank you for your reply.

>Is this a premade pack?
->Yes.

>Did you cycle the pack and use a max voltage of 8100mV to submit to the GPPCHEM tool?
->I cycled the pack and use 8100mV charging.
The submitted data is the following.

GPC_Tool_200813.zip

Thanks,
Best Regards
Yuichi Tsutsui

0 Wyatt Keller over 4 years ago in reply to user6229777

TI__Guru** 105740 points

Hello Yuichi-san,

I believe you have not been reaching the 90% DOD needed for successful update, I have been running your logged data with our chemistry data and you are only getting around 86% DOD change.

Can you send the pack manufacturer specification sheet? A max charge voltage of 4050mV per cell is very low, usually this number is 4200mV and is what our chemistry IDs are referenced to.

Sincerely,

Wyatt Keller

0 user6229777 over 4 years ago in reply to Wyatt Keller

Intellectual 700 points

Dear Wyatt-san

Thank you for your reply.

I'm sorry that I took typo in the last mail.
The charging voltage is 8200mV not 8100mV.
For single cell, it is 4.1V.

Specification sheet is the following.
Please confirm it.

battery specification_02.pdf

Thanks,
Best Regards
Yuichi Tsutsui

0 Wyatt Keller over 4 years ago in reply to user6229777

TI__Guru** 105740 points

Hello Yuichi-san,

Since the voltage range for your batteries are a little smaller than usual you will have to make sure you get as close to the 8200mV spec as possible by reducing the charge taper current.

Currently you are not reaching the 90% DOD needed, in the last logs shared your relaxed voltage was 4050mV which is not high enough to get the 90% change in DOD.

Sincerely,

Wyatt Keller

0 user6229777 over 4 years ago in reply to Wyatt Keller

Intellectual 700 points

Dear Wyatt-san

Thank you for your reply.

It seems that my relaxed voltage is not high enough, but I'm not sure what I should do to solve this issue.
Could you tell me What I should do?
If I need to change Taper current setting in gg.file, could you give me an advice about how much it is better?

Thanks,
Best Regards
Yuichi Tsutsui

0 Wyatt Keller over 4 years ago in reply to user6229777

TI__Guru** 105740 points

Hello Yuichi-san,

You will need to change this on your chargers side so it will taper smaller to get closer to max charge. If you are using lab equipment for charging the batteries you will need to set it for the equipment.

The relaxed voltage needs to be higher at full charge, so we need to slowly trickle more charge in.

Sincerely,

Wyatt Keller

0 user6229777 over 4 years ago in reply to Wyatt Keller

Intellectual 700 points

Dear Wyatty-san

Thank you for your reply.

Do I need to change charger side?
I use BQ24172 (TI) for charging IC.
The following is my battery charging circuitry.
I understand this IC can be set only charging current value during CC charging and charging voltage value during CV charging.
Which part do I need to change?And I set it for the equipment.

Thanks,
Best Regards
Yuichi Tsutsui

0 Wyatt Keller over 4 years ago in reply to user6229777

TI__Guru** 105740 points

Hello Yuichi-san,

Just for the learning cycle try to decrease the taper current more some you can charge your batteries closer to the maximum rated by the pack manufacturer. You will not need to change your charger circuitry for production, this is only for the learning cycle so we can get the full 90% DOD change we need.

Sincerely,

Wyatt Keller

0 user6229777 over 4 years ago in reply to Wyatt Keller

Intellectual 700 points

Dear Wyatt-san

Thank you for your reply.

I'm sure that I need to decrease the taper current.
But maybe I couldn't understand what is the taper current. Could you tell me about it?
The following material is the current figure during my learning cycle.
Which current in this figure is the taper current you mean?
And how much current is the best for my battery?
Log file during learning cycle.pptx

Thanks,
Best Regards
Yuichi Tsutsui

0 Kang Kang over 4 years ago in reply to user6229777

TI__Mastermind 24870 points

Hello Yuichi-san,

Please charge the battery fully.

There's quite a bit of series resistance most likely. Can you take a picture of your setup?

0 user6229777 over 4 years ago in reply to Kang Kang

Intellectual 700 points

Dear Kang Kang-san

Thank you for your reply.

My setup is the following. Please confirm it.
If you have any questions, please let me know.
My setup.pptx

Thanks,
Best Regards
Yuichi Tsutsui

0 Wyatt Keller over 4 years ago in reply to user6229777

TI__Guru** 105740 points

Hello Yuichi-san,

As Kang said, if the connection/series resistance to your battery is very high it will be difficult to fully charge your battery to the pack manufacturers suggestion. If your system has 1Ohm series resistance this can lead to a 50mV drop i your line with a charging current of 50mA (which is around a typical charge taper)

Sincerely,

Wyatt Keller

0 user6229777 over 4 years ago in reply to Wyatt Keller

Intellectual 700 points

Dear Wyatt-san

Thank you for your reply.

I know if the connection/series resistance to the battery it is difficult to fully charge.
But I think in my setup these resistance is not included.
The attached material is my setup.
Please confirm it and give me your thought.

My setup_02.pptx

Thanks,
Best Regards
Yuichi Tsutsui

0 Kang Kang over 4 years ago in reply to user6229777

TI__Mastermind 24870 points

The wire to the battery terminals are extremely long.

Is there any way to reduce the charger output connection to the pack+/pack- on the battery?

Maybe shorten the wires by cutting and attaching new connector?

0 user6229777 over 4 years ago in reply to Kang Kang

Intellectual 700 points

Dear Kang Kang-san

Thank you for your reply.

I can remove the external wire harness easily for the learning cycle.
The connector of the battery can be connected directly to the connector on Main Board.

Do I need to cut the wires of the battery and connect them directly to the board by soldering?

Thanks,
Best Regards
Yuichi Tsutsui

0 Kang Kang over 4 years ago in reply to user6229777

TI__Mastermind 24870 points

Hello Yuichi-san,

The purpose of the exercise is to reduce the trace impedances of your system.

Do what is necessary.

Another option would be to get a 4 wire sense power supply and overcome the IR drop during charge.

0 user6229777 over 4 years ago in reply to Kang Kang

Intellectual 700 points

Dear Kang Kang-san

Thank you for your reply.
I got it.
I would get back to you once I get the data with shortening these wires.

Thanks,
Best Regards
Yuichi Tsutsui